Showing posts with label Risen Christ. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Risen Christ. Show all posts

Saturday, April 30, 2011

Purgatory And Hell - Biblical Or Not?

As Christian believers, we have all had God Moments, those moments when we know that the Holy Spirit is nudging us, telling us to do something a wee bit different than we had planned today. Well, recently I definitely had a God Moment, that time when the Holy Spirit suggested, "Bill, I want you to write this." No, this was not an inspiration such as the writers of the Bible had; but, inspiration such as all believers have -- whether to write something today, to do something special for another today, to do something special for the Lord today, etc.

What was my recent God Moment? A few weeks ago I received one of my regular magazines from a church whose theology I know is not in line with mainstream Christianity. I receive magazines from this church and several of its sister churches which spun out of the Worldwide Church of God (Herbert W. Armstrong) some years back. Their theology is skewed, but their knowledge of, and writings on, world events in light of the Bible is very good.

In this recent issue there is an article titled "What Is Hell?" This got my attention for I know that this group of churches believe in annihilationism for all non-believers, and that before the final judgment non-believers are given a second chance to believe. But, after the final judgment all non-believers will just be totally annihilated, gone, no more existence. Both the second chance and the annihilationism are totally against what the Bible teaches (Matthew 25:41,46) and, in a way, their annihilationism aligns with the atheist view that, after this life, there is nothing more. This church does believe in heaven, but, not hell.

When I read their article, I felt that I wanted to write about the Biblical teaching of heaven, hell, and salvation. But, I got busy with other things and let that thought slide to the back burner.

Then, the following week, I received an e-mail from a Christian sister in our church, Ruth. She wrote:

+++++++++++++++++

Hello Brother Bill, Thank you for your e-mails and for your online ministry. I learn from them and I have also shared some of them with my friends (some are Roman Catholic) who I know will be interested and will benefit from what you write. I want to ask a favor. Last weekend, I was with two college classmates from the Philippines. They are Roman Catholic.

They know I'm a Christian and when we were driving, one asked me about purgatory. I told her that it is not in the Bible and that only Christ can save. She also asked about Abraham's Bosom. I wanted to give her some Bible references. But, I couldn't think of them at that time.

And my other classmate said, "I believe that there is no hell." I told her there is; it's in the Bible. I even asked her where does she thinks Hitler is right now? Then the topic was changed.

Through the course of the day I did share on and off about God's love and Christ's salvation in my life, but did not focus on purgatory and hell. I was wondering if you can give a Biblical explanation of hell and purgatory so that I can share it with them. I know you have lots of writing to do for your ministry, so just do it only when you have the time. Thank you and may the Lord bless you and Ate Dory as you continue spreading His Good News.

+++++++++++++++++

This was my Holy Spirit nudge!

By the way, for my non-Filipino Friends, "Ate" in Tagalog means "older sister" -- a term of respect.

In the Christian community, in the fringe communities, and in the cult and world religions communities -- there are many views of heaven and hell. In this writing, I will focus mostly on hell. When I was much younger and was not yet a Christian, but, still felt that inner urge which God instills in every human being to seek Him -- I wanted to find a church which would tell me there is no hell. Why? Because if there is no hell, then I could go to church on Sunday -- and live like hell the rest of the week.

I found a chaplain, from a major denominational church, at Bergstrom Air Force Base in Austin, Texas, who assured me that hell is only a myth. Wow! What a relief! Party time!

I now believe that this was only his own personal view and not that of his denomination; for I have found that most churches who do not believe in hell -- also do not believe in the Trinity. And, his denomination holds a trinitarian belief.

But, the trend which is becoming more prevalent in many Liberal Theology churches, and in the "Feel Good" Theology churches, varies from just not talking about "hell" because it makes folks uncomfortable -- to actually denying that hell is real. The thought of hell sure made me uncomfortable before I was a Christian -- so, I can relate to why many people flock to the "Feel Good" churches. You know the old story -- give God an hour in church on Sunday morning; then, do your own thing the rest of the week.

Currently, a major controversy is flying all over the cyberworld because of a book written by Rob Bell, pastor of the Mars Hill Church of Grandville, Michigan. The book is "Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Has Ever Lived." And, while, in many interviews Rob Bell denies being a Universalist (everyone goes to heaven) -- his own promotional video makes it clear that he does not believe nor teach that non-believers are destined to spend eternity in hell, nor that salvation is found only through Jesus Christ. http://vimeo.com/20272585

In this video Rob Bell tells us that, if Jesus saves us from hell -- that means that Jesus is saving us from God. And, as Rob Bell says, "What kind of God is that?" Apparently Rob Bell and I do not read the same Bible; for in my Bible Jesus Christ tells me, "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me" (John 14:6).

Can a person be saved without having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? In 1 John 5:12 we read, "He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God -- does not have the life." What is "the life" this verse is talking about? It is eternal life in the presence of God. And, this Scripture verse is clearly telling us that anyone who does not have the Son, Jesus Christ; who does not have a personal relationship with the Son, Jesus Christ -- does not have eternal life with God. What else is left? Only eternal life in hell.

How can a person have a personal, saving relationship with Jesus Christ? Jesus Himself tells us, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me" (Revelation 3:20).

In the Jewish culture of Jesus' day, the most intimate thing a person could do with friends was to dine with them. Jesus is telling everyone, "If you will open the door of your heart, I will come in and dine with you. I will be your very intimate Friend." But, He cannot open the door of your heart.

Picture a door with no door knob on the outside; the only way to open that door is from the inside, within you. However, when you do open the door of your heart and invite Him to come in, He will not hesitate. From that moment, you will have eternal life in Christ (John 6:47).

All a non-believer has to do to have eternal life in Christ -- is to acknowledge Him, believe that He came, died, and resurrected to make salvation and eternal life available to you. Believe that Jesus Christ is patiently waiting, waiting to be invited into your heart, into your life, to be your very Best Friend -- and then, invite Him to come in.

Is it really that simple? Yes! If a person will sincerely open his/her heart and invite Jesus Christ to come in -- the Holy Spirit will indwell and seal this person (Ephesians 1:13, 4:30) until the day of redemption, i.e., for eternity. Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us that no one can earn eternal life in Christ through personal works, i.e., they cannot be righteous enough to earn entry into heaven (Isaiah 64:6). Yet, all can have eternal life in Christ. Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us salvation is a "gift" from God, a gift freely given to all who will, by grace, through faith -- believe and receive His gift. Yes, it is that simple.

John 10:27-28, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand." That is His promise to all of us who believe. All we have to do is, by grace, through faith -- believe, open the door, and invite Him to enter.

What happens to all people who choose to deny God, to deny Jesus Christ? What happens to all the people who have chosen to worship false gods in the many world religions which deny God, Jesus Christ, and the need to have a relationship with Him for salvation? In denying God; all of these people have chosen to condemn themselves to spend eternity outside the presence of God.

If not in the presence of God; then, what eternal destination is available to all who have chosen to spend eternity outside His presence? The only other eternal destination is hell. There is no other. Is God sending all those people to hell? No. They are sending themselves to hell by denying God and refusing His gift of eternal life.

Many Liberal Theology churches are teaching that there is no hell, that a loving God would not send anyone to eternal hell. For some reason, they cannot seem to understand what the Bible teaches -- that God sends no one to hell. Heaven or hell is a personal choice every person must make, individually. Everyone who goes to hell -- does so because this was his/her own personal choice.

The Unitarian Universalist church, a cult church, teaches that everyone, regardless of how you have lived, will eventually go to heaven. This is called Universalism, i.e., universal salvation, and denies the existence of hell. The basis for this belief is found in secular humanism and in personal worldly desires (much as I had before I was a believer and when I was looking for a "no hell" church). This teaching has absolutely no Biblical support.

We know that our Roman Catholic Friends believe in purgatory. What is purgatory? Is it real? Is it Biblical?

+++++++++++++++++

Excerpts from the Roman Catholic apologetics and evangelization web site, Catholic Answers tell us:

PURGATORY ( http://www.catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp )

The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a "purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven," which is experienced by those "who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified" (CCC 1030). The purification is necessary because, as Scripture teaches, nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven (Rev. 21:27) and, while we may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us, specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven.

Two Judgments: When we die, we undergo what is called the particular, or individual, judgment. Scripture says that "it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment" (Heb. 9:27). We are judged instantly and receive our reward, for good or ill. We know at once what our final destiny will be.

At the end of time, when Jesus returns, there will come the general judgment to which the Bible refers, for example, in Matthew 25:31-32: "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." In this general judgment all our sins will be publicly revealed (Luke 12:2–5).

Augustine said, in "The City of God," that "temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment" (21:13). It is between the particular and general judgments, then, that the soul is purified of the remaining consequences of sin: "I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper" (Luke 12:59).

+++++++++++++++++

Underline emphasis in the excerpts above are mine. In the excerpt above CCC 1030 is short for "Catechism of the Catholic Church 1030" which deals with The Final Purification, or Purgatory.

Biblically, there are several problems with the teaching of purgatory found in these Catechism excerpts.

First, is the claim that although we are forgiven -- we must still be purified, or cleansed, in purgatory through our own works or through the prayers of others. Yet, to the sinful thief on the cross who believed, Jesus said, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43) Jesus doesn't tell him that after he spends time in purgatory, he will be forgiven, cleansed, and can then enter into Paradise. No, Jesus tells the repentant thief, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise!"

And, in John 19:30, Jesus declares, "It is finished." What is finished? His work of salvation has been finished; there is no more to be done. After His declaration of completion -- all who will, by grace, through faith, believe and receive His finished work HAS salvation into eternal life in Christ.

And, in John 17:4 (nkjv), in Jesus' intercessory prayer for His disciples, and for us, He prays to the Father, "I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do." His work of atonement, His work of salvation, was finished. The rest is up to each of us individually -- to accept or to reject that wonderful "gift" of eternal life.

1 John 1:7 tells us, ". . . the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin."

1 John 1:9 tells us, ". . . He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Since we have these promises of His cleansing for all who, by grace, through faith, have believed and received Him -- why would anyone need further cleansing or purging in a place called purgatory?

Second, is the misinterpretation, or the taking out of context Luke 12:59 to imply that this verse is speaking of suffering more in purgatory to gain purification.

In this Scripture passage found in Luke 12:54-59 Jesus is telling the gathered multitude of Jews (using an analogy familiar to them in their agricultural community) that they can tell from the clouds and the winds what kind of weather they will have -- but, cannot even recognize when their promised Messiah (the great Divider from Luke 12:49-53) has come into their midst.

Then, using their familiarity with judges -- He speaks of their practice of taking an opponent for judgment before a magistrate -- when they themselves still owe such a debt to God. And, because of this debt, they will be thrown into prison, i.e., spiritual prison. And, they will not be allowed out of that "spiritual prison" until they have paid the debt which their Messiah came to pay for them; a debt which they cannot pay even though it might only be equal to a widow's mite, a penny, or a cent.

The Greek word for the "cent" found in Luke 12:59 is "lepton" which is, according to Strong's Concordance, "a small brass coin, worth about a 1/5 of a cent." In other words, for such a small debt their eternal lives will be thrown away -- when their Messiah had come to "pay in full" all their debt and set them free into eternal life with God.

This, I believe, is a much more accurate understanding of Luke 12:59 than to say that it means that all "not quite forgiven" believers will have to spend time in purgatory to be forgiven for a debt which He has already "paid in full." It Is Finished!

Third, is their description and timing of the two judgments -- Particular Judgment and General Judgment.

The Catechism excerpt above sees the Scripture passage of Matthew 25:31-32 as the General Judgment, or final judgment. Yet, the judgment in this passage, which Jesus calls the "Sheep and Goat Judgment" (verse 32), happens at Christ's Second Coming when He will sit on His throne, the throne of David in Jerusalem, (verse 31) to establish His Millennial Kingdom on earth for 1000 years. This cannot be the final judgment for He still will reign on earth for 1000 years. The final judgment happens at the end of His 1000 year Millennial Reign (Revelation 20:4) and is called the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).

This Catechism excerpt tells us regarding the Particular Judgment, "We are judged instantly and receive our reward, for good or ill. We know at once what our final destiny will be."

We had better have that issue resolved BEFORE we die. There is no reason to wait until we have died -- to know if we are going to heaven or to hell. We CAN KNOW today if we are saved and have eternal life, eternal security, in Christ.

What does Scripture teach us about Eternal Security?

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes HAS eternal life" (John 6:47). Also, in John 3:16, ". . . but HAVE eternal life." And, in John 3:36, "He who believes in the Son HAS eternal life. . ." In John 5:24, ". . .he who hears My voice, and believes Him who sent Me, HAS eternal life."

How can there be any doubt that if one, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8), believes and receives Him (John 1:12) -- he/she HAS eternal life assured, through the personal promises of Jesus Christ. What can be more certain than, "He (she) who believes HAS eternal life"?

Every Christian believer can KNOW, in this life, that he/she has eternal life in Christ. There should be no doubt; for in doubt, how can there be eternal security in Christ? Always keep Romans 8:1 in mind and in your heart, "There is therefore now NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." A person who, by grace, through faith, has believed -- HAS eternal life in Christ.

What does Scripture teach us about our moment of our mortal death?

2 Corinthians 5:6-8, "Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord -- for we walk by faith, not by sight -- we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."

Philippians 1:22-23, "But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better."

These Scripture passages clearly tell us that, when a believer dies -- he/she is with Christ, is home with the Lord. After our last breath in this mortal body; our next breath will be in the presence of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

But, if believers who die must first go into purgatory, and, if those Scripture passages above are true -- then, Jesus Christ will have to be in purgatory also, for us to be with Him. And, we know that is not true.

Jesus Christ ascended into heaven (Acts 1:9-11), is sitting at the right hand of God the Father (Hebrews 8:1, 10:12, 12:2, 1 Peter 3:22), is our only mediator between man and God (1 Timothy 2:5), and is continually interceding for all believers before the Father (Romans 8:34). Jesus Christ is not in purgatory; nor do we go to purgatory.

Some may ask, "Then, why did Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16:19-31) not go directly into heaven -- but, instead they went into Hades?"

Yes, that is true -- for when Jesus taught about Lazarus and the rich man, He had not yet gone to the cross to buy our pardon, nor had He resurrected to assure our resurrection into eternal life. At that point people who died in faith did not go directly into heaven; but, like the Old Testament saints, went instead into the Bosom of Abraham, i.e., the Paradise side of Hades.

We read in Luke 16:19-31 that the rich man died and went into Hades/Torment, while Lazarus went into Hades/Paradise, which we also call the Bosom of Abraham. And, we read that there was no way for either to cross to the other side. Because Jesus Christ used Lazarus' name, we know that this is a true story and not a parable.

Study all of His parables -- and you will find a lesson wrapped around local customs and lifestyles, i.e., agriculture, local prejudices such as the Jews and the Samaritans, local dining habits, etc. -- but, in these parables, you will find no personal names. The story of Lazarus and the rich man is a true story.

Jesus told us, "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me" (John 14:6). The Old Testament saints believed and looked forward to their Messiah. Upon their deaths, those who, by faith believed, went into Paradise, Abraham's Bosom, to await their Messiah. During His earthly ministry and until His death and resurrection, the same was true of all New Testament believers who died.

Yet, when He resurrected and led the captives, the saints in Paradise, free (Ephesians 4:8) and into heaven -- it can clearly be said that they were entering heaven through Jesus Christ. Since then, all believers, upon mortal death, immediately enter the presence of God through Jesus Christ. It can truly be said -- once we breathe our last breath in this mortal body, our next breath will be in the presence of our God.

When Christ died on the cross, He told the repentant thief, "Today you shall be with Me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43). Christ went into Hades/Paradise for three days, the thief went with Him. When He departed Hades/Paradise, He took those faithful believers, Old Testament believers, pre-resurrection New Testament believers who were in Paradise, and that thief who believed on the cross -- into heaven with Him (Ephesians 4:8).

From that moment on, the gates of Hades/Paradise were closed, out of business. In my mind, I see a sign posted on the gate of Hades/Paradise/Abraham's Bosom: "Moved To New Eternal Location -- Heaven"

Yet, the other side of Hades, Hades/Torment, was, and is still, open for business -- and, unfortunately, doing a brisk business. Those, like the rich man of Luke 16, and all non-believers who have died -- whether they were just vanilla-flavored non-believers, secularist, atheists, those in the many world religions, those in non-Christian churches, those in New Age and other false and cult religions -- are all still waiting in Hades/Torment for their resurrection into their eternal mortal bodies for final judgment.

This will happen after the 1000 year Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ on earth. All non-believers will then be resurrected from Hades/Torment into their new eternal, immortal bodies (Revelation 20:5) and will stand before Jesus Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment; their final judgment of punishment. From there they will be cast into the Lake of Fire, i.e., hell, for eternity (Revelation 20:11-15).

There WILL BE two judgments of believers and non-believers as the Roman Catholic Catechism teaches. But, not the two which it teaches. They teach a Particular Judgment immediately upon death -- when the person discovers his/her final destination. Yet, in their teaching, that person does not get to go into his final destination yet -- for he first has to go into Purgatory for cleansing.

The Bible teaches that all believers who have died in Christ, and all believers still alive, i.e., the universal or worldwide church or body of believers, will be Raptured (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, John 14:1-3, Revelation 4:1), given our immortal bodies, and taken into heaven.

There, all believers will stand before Christ at the Believer's Judgment, i.e., Bema Seat Judgment (2 Corinthians 5:10, 1 Corinthians 3:11-15, 1 Peter 5:4), a judgment of rewards. Yet, everyone who will be present at the Believer's Judgment will have known before death that they have eternal life in Christ.

At the Rapture, all believers (those still living and those who have died in Christ), all Old Testament and New Testament saints, will be resurrected into our immortal, glorified bodies when we meet the Lord in the clouds, or in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:50-53). Roman Catholics do not believe in the Rapture which is taught in these passages -- for it conflicts with their teaching of purgatory.

Let's look at another aspect of the Roman Catholic teaching on purgatory:

The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a "purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven," which is experienced by those "who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified" (CCC 1030).

They teach that we need purgatory to make us clean enough to enter heaven. Yet, Isaiah 64:6 tells us that our righteousness, our works, are like filthy garments in the eyes of God. And, nowhere in Scripture are we told that we can cleanse those filthy garments, our righteousness. Then, how are we to enter heaven since nothing unrighteous, or unclean, can enter heaven (Revelation 21:27)?

No mortal man can ever be righteousness enough to enter God's heaven. So, Jesus Christ covers all believers with His righteousness; the blood of Christ becomes our righteousness -- for all who, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ, believe and receive His gift of eternal life. Believers do not need the purification of the Roman Catholic Purgatory; for we have the righteous, perfect blood of Christ cleansing us. We are covered by His blood, His righteousness (Romans 3:24-25, 5:9, Ephesians 1:7, Revelation 1:5).

The Roman Catholic Catechism, in the excerpt above, tells us, "The purification is necessary because. . . there can still be many impurities in us, specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven."

This teaches that we still have to receive punishment from God -- for sins which He has already forgiven. Yet, the Bible teaches "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" (Romans 8:1)

Who is "in Christ Jesus"? "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name" (John 1:12). All who, by grace, through faith in Christ Jesus, have believed -- are "in Christ Jesus" -- and can rightfully claim the title of "forgiven sinner."

Romans 5:1, "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Justified means that God has declared believers to be just, cleansed, because He has imputed, attributed, the righteousness of Jesus Christ to all believers. So, since there is "no condemnation" -- since we are "children of God" -- since we have been "justified" -- we have peace with God through our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. For such forgiven sinners -- there is no more punishment; for our sins, past, present, and future -- have been forgiven. And, we have His promise on this, "He who believes HAS eternal life" (John 6:47).

Believers will stand before Jesus Christ in the Believer's Judgment (often called the Bema Seat Judgment) which is a judgment, not of punishment, but of rewards. This judgment will occur during the seven year Tribulation when all believers have been raptured into heaven. During that seven years, there are two major events: the Believer's Judgment (2 Corinthians 5:10, 1 Corinthians 3:11-15) to prepare the Bride of Christ for her Bridegroom, and then, the Wedding Feast of the Lamb (Revelation 19:5--9).

At the Believer's Judgment, many believers will receive great rewards; others of us will receive few. However, the greatest reward -- which all believers are assured -- is that we WILL spend eternity in the presence of our God.

If hell and purgatory are true; we should find them in the Bible. Do we?

Hell (place of the dead): occurs 54 in the KJV, occurs 32 times in the NKJV, occurs 13 times in the NASB

Sheol (place of the dead): occurs 18 times in the NKJV, occurs 67 times in the NASB

Hades (hell, place of the dead): occurs 11 times in the NKJV, occurs 10 times in the NASB

Lake of Fire: occurs 4 times in the NASB, ccurs 4 times in the NKJV, occurs 4 times in the KJV

Purgatory: Not found in any of the Bible translations.

However, vague references to purgatory are found in the Apocrypha -- and some Bible passages have been mistakenly used in an attempt to justify the doctrine of purgatory. That, and the writings of the Popes and other church leaders, is the basis for the doctrine of purgatory:

Isaiah 4:4, "When the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and purged the blood of Jerusalem from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning." In the Roman Catholic teaching, it is argued that this "spirit of burning" -- in this context, refers to the fires of judgment - a hint of the doctrine of purgatory.

Yet, this Scripture verse is clearly speaking of God's relationship with the nation, Israel -- and has nothing to do with the New Testament church. In my view, this passage in Isaiah 4:2-6 is God's promise to His people, Israel, that, although they will go through the fires of the Tribulation (Matthew 24:15-28, Revelation 6 - 19), the 70th Week of Daniel (Daniel 9:24-27), Jacob's Trouble or Distress (Jeremiah 30:7) -- He will bring the remnant of Israel through the "fire of tribulation" and, "In that day the Branch of the LORD (their Messiah) will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth will be the pride and the adornment of the survivors of Israel" (Isaiah 4:2). This has nothing to do with the doctrine of purgatory.

2 Maccabees 12:43-44, "He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death."

2 Maccabees 12:46, "Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin."

There is no praying for the dead, wherever they are -- for their eternal destiny was sealed in this life. Once a person passes from this life into eternity -- there is no reason to pray for them. We see this proven in the true story Jesus told of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16:19-31. The choices made in this life determine our eternal home -- heaven or hell. And, there is no more reason to pray for those who have died. Spend your time praying for the living -- that, those who do not yet believe will turn from the world, and turn to follow Jesus Christ into eternal life.

King David fasted and prayed fervently for his infant son while the baby still lived. Once the baby died, David stopped praying, cleaned himself, and ate. There was nothing more he could do. Yet, he celebrated because he knew he would see his son again in heaven. In 2 Samuel 12:23 David says of his dead infant son, "But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."

And, that is how we should view death. Celebrate the "Home Going" of all our loved ones who died believing in Christ -- for we who are believers, as was David -- look forward to a glorious reunion in heaven where Jesus Christ will be the Host.

Mourn our loved ones and friends who died not knowing Jesus Christ -- for we shall never see them again. This should be great motivation for us to be sharing the Gospel will all our family and friends while there is still time for them to believe and receive His free gift of eternal life.

In closing, let me emphasize that a person's salvation is not determined by his/her belief about purgatory, for or against the doctrine of purgatory. A person's salvation is based only upon his/her relationship with Jesus Christ. And, our eternal security stands upon knowing that Christ's righteousness is imputed, attributed, to all who believe. No one is saved by a church. We are most often saved in a church, but not by a church, nor by its traditions and dogmas. We are saved only by having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

So, you may ask, then what does it matter if a person believes in purgatory or not? A Christian should always be able to rest in the knowledge of his/her own eternal security in Christ. How can a person have eternal security; how can a person have peace with God -- if that person does not KNOW if he is going to heaven or not? A person's salvation does not rest upon a belief or disbelief in purgatory. But, his/her eternal security most certainly does rest upon believing Jesus Christ when He tells us, "He who believes HAS eternal life" (John 6:47).

If you are a believer today -- trust our Lord enough to believe His promises. If you are not yet a believer -- know that your eternal destiny is resting upon your relationship, or lack of relationship, with Jesus Christ. Yes, you can wait to make a commitment to Him until after you have lived a worldly life. He will always welcome you and receive you into the kingdom of God -- at any time. But, can YOU say WHEN your last breath will occur?

What if it happens before you make that commitment? What if you have a sudden heart attack or are in a fatal accident -- and do not have time to invite Him to come in and be your Friend, your Savior; then, what will happen to you?

The Bible is very clear about that. Revelation 20:11-14 tell us about the Great White Throne Judgment for all non-believers, many who died before they had a chance to make that last minute commitment to Christ. This is their final judgment -- and YOU do NOT want to be standing in that judgment.

Revelation 20:15 tells us, with no doubt, what happens to all of those people who stand before Christ in the Great White Throne Judgment, "And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." It is a foregone conclusion that the names of all who appear at this judgment are NOT in the Book of Life. That, my Friend, is the ticket to hell.

Don't let that happen to you. If you do not know enough about the Bible and God to make a decision today; at least, be smart enough to find a Christ-centered, Bible-teaching church and get involved with them, in fellowship and in Bible study. Learn from God's Written Word why it is so important for YOU to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, today -- for no one is promised a tomorrow.

If I can help you find a church in your area; please contact me -- for hell is a reality, a reality I do not want you to experience.

To my sister in Christ, Ruth, and to all my Friends -- I realize that this writing is pretty long. Yet, the issues discussed are critical. Possibly eternal souls hang in the balance for some who are reading this right now. And, I would not want to stand before my Lord one day and have Him tell me, "Bill, you chose brevity in your writing to make some more comfortable; yet, others did not make a decision to follow Me -- for you did not fully explain what My Word teaches about heaven, hell, and salvation."

No, I would rather my Lord tell me, "Bill, you talked their ears off! But, they got the message -- and that person over there, he/she believed." That one person is worth any amount of work I might put into my writings -- and it is worth all the work YOU might put into reading them. Especially if that person is you, or a loved one, or a close friend -- or even someone you do not like that much. For in heaven -- we will ALL be loved ones!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill Gray

Tuesday, October 5, 2010

Bible Translations - Which One?

On the TimesDaily Religion Forum, I began a discussion by asking the question, "Should We Interpret The Bible?" And, my Forum Friend, Tigrtrek replied, "Of course people should read the Bible and decide for themselves. (Does) 'Study to show thyself approved rightly dividing the word of truth' ring a bell? Don't let someone -- me, Bill, the Pope, Pat Robertson, or anyone tell you what it (the Bible) says. Read it yourself. And don't limit yourself to any one translation. I spent too many years blinded by a KJV-only bias."

Tigr, I agree with you completely that we should not limit ourselves to one specific Bible translation. Personally, my main Bible is the NASB; but, when doing an indepth study of a passage I will use the NASB, the NKJV, and sometimes the KJV. These are word for word translations and tend to be better for such studies. In my writings, I will sometimes use the NIV when it better expresses the thought I am trying to convey.

I stay away from all paraphrase Bibles, such as Peterson's "The Message." The paraphrase Bibles tend to be more just the author's interpretation and not a translation, i.e., it is closer to a commentary than a Bible translation. Another paraphrase Bible is "The Living Bible." On the title page, in the subtitle, it reads "Paraphrased, A Thought-for-Thought Translation." No, a Bible cannot be a "paraphrase" and, at the same time, be a "translation." Another paraphrase Bibles is the "Good News for Modern Man" -- also called Today's English Version.

The "New Living Translation" began as a redo of "The Living Bible" and would fall more into the category of the NIV.

In a discussion of the New Living Translation, we read at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Living_Translation :

"It has been suggested that this "thought-for-thought" methodology, while making the translation easier to understand, is less accurate than a literal (formal equivalence) method, and thus the New Living Translation may not be suitable for those wishing to undertake detailed study of the Bible."

I also stay away from the Amplified Bible for a similar reason -- the amplification tends to put it more into a commentary status. And, I tend to stay away from the "gender neutral" translations such as the TNIV. In my thinking, if God had intended the Bible to be gender neutral -- He would have authored it that way.

A very good Bible web site is the Blue Letter Bible: http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.cfm

The Blue Letter Bible web site has 12 English translations as well as Spanish, Latin Vulgate, Greek, and Hebrew. You can choose to view a verse in side by side translations for comparison -- or view a chapter in any of the available translations. The site offers Strong's Concordance for word studies, commentaries, Bible dictionary aids, and other great information to help in your Bible study.

Like you, Tigr, I am a wee bit uneasy when someone tells me that we must use only the KJV Bible. And, I agree with you that we must never allow anyone, myself included, to dictate to us what a Scripture verse or passage means, i.e., that their interpretation is the absolute and only correct interpretation.

Yet, on the other hand, I will suggest to anyone who is a new believer, who is not yet mature in Biblical knowledge -- that you find someone who is mature and can mentor you. And, get involved in a good Bible study group -- and do not miss your church's Sunday School classes. I know that, in the church I attend, our Sunday School classes have always tended to be as interactive, challenging, and exciting as our Bible studies. This is an environment where we all can grow more mature in our personal knowledge of God's Word.

I recall my own situation the first few years I was a believer. My Bible knowledge was more on the "Kindergarten" level. In early 1991, during the "Operation Desert Storm" Gulf War, when Iraq set all the oil fields on fire and the scene was looking like Armageddon -- our Bible study leader, Tom Fletcher, began to talk about the Rapture, the Tribulation, etc.

And, I had no idea what he was talking about. Of course, I was not going to ask and show my Bible ignorance -- so, I just smiled and pretended to know what he meant. And, then, I began my own quest to understand End Times eschatology.

But, my point is that we all, when we are new Christian believers, need someone more mature in the Word to mentor us. I began reading Dr. J. Vernon McGee and other Bible teachers, listening as much as possible to KWVE Christian Radio, as well as attending Bible studies and Sunday School classes. I have attended Eschatology Conferences -- and, yes, I read the full set of "Left Behind" series books by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins -- and many other good books on eschatology.

I found mentors and learned from them. Some I soon outgrew, i.e., wanted more meat in my Biblical diet -- so, I moved on to other mentors. And, today, I am still learning -- and have built quite a nice personal library.

However, with all that said -- I have never met, heard, or read a Bible teacher, scholar, or theologian with whom I agree 100% of the time. I do as the apostle Paul tells us in Acts 17:11 -- I read, listen, etc., to my teachers -- consider what they have taught me -- and then, compare it with what I find in Scripture. And, from this -- I settle on what I believe this Scripture passage is teaching me.

Doing this, I feel that I am fairly well grounded in my theology and that I stand on a pretty solid theological foundation. Could I be wrong on some things? You bet! But, I will keep studying and learning until the day I breath my last breath in this mortal body or He comes to rapture me.

And, then, my real education will begin. Can you imagine having an eternity, all that time -- to continue learning? Do you doubt this is true? Consider this point. Only God knows everything and cannot learn.

If we could ever get to a point where we know everything and there is nothing more we can learn -- we would be Gods. Since we know this will never happen (Lucifer is good proof of this) -- then, we must keep learning even after we are in the eternal presence of God. Isn't that exciting? All of these issues which we are debating today, we will know -- and much more. Yes, exciting! I can hardly wait to begin working on my Advanced Degree!

If you have found this useful, please feel free to share it with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's all study to grow more mature in our knowledge of God's Word -- and then use that knowledge to share the Gospel with all the world -- until He returns.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill Gray

Sunday, September 12, 2010

Who Is To Blame - God Or You?

So many non-believers want to blame God -- instead of looking within themselves. They will ask, "How can a loving God condemn anyone to spend eternity in hell?" And, the answer: God does not condemn anyone to hell.

Each person, individually, either chooses salvation and eternal life in Jesus Christ -- or they choose eternity in hell with Satan.

Each person's eternal destination depends solely upon the decision he/she makes in this life. Each person must decide to receive eternal life in Jesus Christ -- or to reject Him. Everyone who is in Hades/Torment and who goes to hell for eternity -- can only blame himself or herself -- not God.

That is the heart of the discussion below: Who is to blame -- God or you?

Share this with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing the Word of God, let's keep reaching out to the unsaved and the unchurched, sharing with them the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- until He returns.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill Gray

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi to all my Forum Friends,

In the discussion which I began titled "Using 'OMG' And The 'F Word On Public Forums" -- our Forum Friend, HoldenMyOwn, told me, "Mr. Gray, Assuming you believe in the Bible... Your Bible states numerous times that I do not deserve to live and that I will burn in hell for all eternity. I say "OMG." And you say that "I" am the one that is being disrespectful? Does that honestly make sense to you?"

Holden, if the city, county, or state where you live has a law which says that driving 90 mph through a school zone is against their law -- and you do it anyway; who is to blame -- them for having and enforcing the law -- or you for breaking that law?

In the Old Testament, God gave the people of Israel certain laws -- and He gave them the punishment for breaking those laws. If a person still broke His laws; who is to blame for that person being punished -- God or that person?

God gave the Israelites the Ten Commandments and His Laws expanding upon those commandments. He knew that no one would be able to keep all of His commandments all the time. Why could they not keep those commandments? Because, when Adam fell into sin by disobeying God, from that moment on -- Adam and all his descendants have a sin nature. Man, by his very nature, is sinful.

But, on the other hand, God being a loving God and wanting all people to come to repentance, gave man a means of atoning for his sins, i.e., atonement for breaking the Law. He gave them animal sacrifices they could do to atone for their sins. These animal sacrifices were the precursor for the real "Once For All" Sacrifice which was to come -- Jesus Christ.

The Old Testament Jews had to keep offering animal sacrifices, over and over, to continually atone for their sins. When Jesus Christ came, He became the final Sacrifice, once for all. He was the Perfect Sacrifice -- and, in that respect, the Law had been fulfilled.

Once the Law had been fulfilled in Jesus Christ; He brought us into the dispensation of Grace, the era or period of Grace. We read in John 1:17, "For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ."

So, from the time Israel was given the Law at Mount Sinai, until the Day of Pentecost, the world was in the Biblical Dispensation of the Law and needed continual sacrifices to atone for their sins. On the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2) the Christian church, the body of believers, began with the coming of the Holy Spirit upon the 120 disciples in the Upper Room.

And, this was the initiation of the Dispensation of Grace. We will be in the Dispensation, or Period, of Grace until the Second Coming of Jesus Christ at the end of the seven year Tribulation. At this time, He will establish His Millennial Kingdom and thus begins the Kingdom Age, the kingdom of God on earth.

Now that Jesus Christ has brought us into the Dispensation of Grace -- by the Grace of God, through FAITH in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9) -- every person has an opportunity to be forgiven and to receive His "free gift" of salvation, eternal life in Christ.

So, Holden, when you tell me, "Your Bible states numerous times that I do not deserve to live and that I will burn in hell for all eternity."

No, the Bible tells us that if you continue to reject the "free gift" of salvation, which has already been purchased and "paid in full" by Jesus Christ on the cross -- YOU are condemning yourself to burn in hell for eternity.

Up until your last breath in your mortal body -- you can repent, i.e., turn from following the world and turn to following Jesus Christ. Once you have breathed that last breath in your mortal -- your eternal destination is set in concrete. At that point, absolutely nothing can change your eternal home.

If, before you die, you do repent and receive Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior -- you will spend eternity in the glorious presence of God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and all of your loved ones and friends who have died as believers.

If, when you die, you have not received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior -- you will spend eternity in the horrific, evil presence of Satan, eternity in hell.

The ONLY unforgivable sin is to die without having Jesus Christ in your heart, without a saving relationship with Him.

Up until that last breath -- there is always a chance to repent and follow Jesus Christ. But, the danger of waiting that long -- is that none of us know when that last breath will occur. We could be in the best of health one minute -- and dead the next.

When I was 25, I worked of Ramo Wooldridge (early version of TRW). One Friday we had a party and I became good friends with one of our programmers, a guy my age. He was excited because he was getting married the next week. His parents were out from the Mid West and all things were "Go" for their wedding. Sunday morning his parents went to his apartment and found him dead. He had died of a heart attack in his sleep. Absolutely no indication of any problems before.

Several years later, I worked for Scientific Data Systems in Santa Monica. One Monday morning I went to the tool room to get some new tools -- and the young man who worked there, 21 years old, was not in the tool cage. I was told that he had died of a heart attack over the weekend. Once again, no indication of any problems -- until they found him dead -- at 21 years old.

None of us have a guaranty of that next breath. So, Holden, and all of my Forum Friends who are not yet Christian believers -- do not gamble that you will always have more time. There is no guaranty. The only promise, the only guaranty, you have is: If you die as a believer, you WILL spend eternity with God -- and, if you die as a non-believer, you WILL spend eternity with Satan in hell.

So, why gamble with something so important? Take that "sure bet" and get right with God -- right now -- while there is still time.

Is this a "hell-fire and darnation" sermon? No, my Friends, just the truth -- shared in love. I want so much to meet you in heaven one day. Please do not disappoint me.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Tuesday, August 3, 2010

Is Baptism A Commandment -
Is Baptism A Requirement For Salvation?

Often in discussions with our more legalistic brothers and sisters, and even with many non-believers, the question of baptism and the implied salvation through baptism is raised. How do we respond? We respond like we do with all theologies which are not 100% Bible based. Many people, many churches, build their theology upon one or more Scripture verses or passages -- even though there are other Scripture verses which contradict that teaching. Should we ignore parts of Scripture which contradicts our chosen theology -- or should we rework our theology to make it agree with ALL Scripture? Of course, you and I know that no theology, no Bible interpretation, is valid if even one Scripture verse contradicts that teaching.

This is why I have tried to show all sides of the "salvation through baptism" question. And, I have not arrived at any new understanding; but, have confirmed the belief that I have long had and confirmed the theology taught in our church.

I pray this dialogue is edifying for you and that you will choose to share it with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, with all the world -- until He returns.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill Gray

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi to my Forum Friends,

In the discussion I began titled, "What Happens When A Believer Dies?" I wrote, "Until that last breath, a person can repent, ask Jesus Christ into his/her heart, and receive salvation through Jesus Christ. However, once a person has breathed his/her last breath in this mortal body -- his/her eternal fate is set in concrete."

And, my Forum Friend, TheMax, wrote, "Whatever happened to make you forget the words of Peter when he was asked "men and brethren what shall we do?" He didn't say let Christ come into your heart. He replied "Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (salvation).

I responded, "Hi Max, Jesus Himself tells us, "He who believes HAS eternal life" (John 6:47). I will take His promise as valid."

To be more complete, I should have added, "You will notice that Peter tells the people in Jerusalem to 'Repent' -- which means turn from following the world and turn to follow Jesus Christ. When a person 'repents and believes' he is saved, he is a Christian believer. Then, Peter continues, '. . .be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"

Some may see this as Peter saying that repenting and baptism are the requirements for salvation, for receiving the Holy Spirit -- and I can see how one could interpret this Scripture verse in that way. However, when we stands this verse beside other Scripture passages, which we must do to have a complete theology, such as John 6:47, John 3:16, etc., which tell us that "he" and "whoever" believes HAS eternal life -- we must conclude that Peter meant that repenting and believing is the criterion for salvation, for receiving the Holy Spirit. And, then, one, in an act of obedience, follows Jesus Christ in baptism as a declaration to the world that this person HAS become a Christian believer.

Renowned Bible scholar and commentator, Matthew Henry, writes in his commentary on Acts 2:

"(1). . .Repent, repent; change your mind, change your way; admit an after-thought.'' (2.) Be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ; that is, "firmly believe the doctrine of Christ, and submit to his grace and government; and make an open solemn profession of this, and come under an engagement to abide by it, by submitting to the ordinance of baptism;. . ."

And, in the Jamieson, Fausset & Brown Commentary on Acts 2, David Brown writes:

"Acts 2:38. Repent -- The word denotes change of mind, and here includes the reception of the Gospel as the proper issue of that revolution of mind which they were then undergoing. (Be) baptized . . . for the remission of sins -- as the visible seal of that remission."

Max, you tells me, "If you believe, then keep his commandments. All of them, not just the ones that seem right to you."

And, I respond, "Hi Max, We do not live under the Law, for the Law could not save anyone (Romans 2:20). We have passed from the Law and, since the Day of Pentecost, have lived in the Dispensation of Grace. 'For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast' (Ephesians 2:8-9)."

You reply, "Bill, I didn't say anything about keeping the old Law. When Christ died on the cross, the veil of the temple was split, meaning we no longer have to go through a high priest to speak with the Lord."

I respond, "Then, it is not clear what you did mean -- if not the Law? There is no Old Law and New Law. There was the Law given to Moses in the Old Testament for the people of Israel. And, there is the Dispensation of Grace brought to us through Jesus Christ. And, that is what I was addressing. If you had something else in mind; please tell me."

You answer, "I said commandments. Is not baptism a commandment? Or are you going to pick and choose the ones that suit you?

Okay, now I see the misunderstanding. You are relating baptism to the Ten Commandments. No, baptism is not a commandment; it is an ordinance. Jesus Christ left us two ordinances, i.e., instructions, that we should do in remembrance of Him until He returns: baptism and communion.

After we have believed, been sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13, 4:30), and have become saved, born again Christians by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- we are then instructed to follow Him in baptism showing to the world that we are His disciples and that we are Christ Followers.

And, we are instructed to remember Him spiritually through communion, in Luke 22:19-20, "And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me." And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

The full Ten Commandments are spelled out by God in Exodus 20:

Exodus 20:3, "You shall have no other gods before Me."
Exodus 20:4, "You shall not make for yourself an idol. . ."
Exodus 20:7, "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. . ."
Exodus 20:8, "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."
Exodus 20:12, "Honor your father and your mother. . ."
Exodus 20:13, "You shall not murder."
Exodus 20:14, "You shall not commit adultery.
Exodus 20:15, "You shall not steal."
Exodus 20:16, "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."
Exodus 20:17, "You shall not covet. . ."

Then, in Matthew 22, Jesus Christ addressed the Pharisees and condensed the Ten Commandments into two:

The first four of the Ten Commandments, our responsibility toward God, are found in Mat 22:37-38, ". . .You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment."

And, the last six of the Ten Commandments, our responsibility toward our fellow man, are found in Matthew 22:39, "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"

Then, Jesus summarized in Matthew 22:40, "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

These commandments all Christians are to honor and to follow; yet, we are not and cannot be saved through the Ten Commandments (Romans 3:20), nor through the ordinances of baptism and communion.

So, how are we saved? Good question. We are told in Romans 4:3-5, "For what does the Scripture say? 'Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.' Now to him who works the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly his faith is accounted for righteousness."

Hebrews, chapter 11, also tells us of Abraham and many other Old Testament saints who were counted as righteous, i.e., attributed the righteousness of Jesus Christ -- through believing God.

You see, if we rely upon our own righteousness, our own works -- we are doomed to hell; for our righteousness is like filthy rags in the eyes of God (Isaiah 64:6). Yet, when we have the righteousness of Jesus Christ attributed, i.e., imputed, to us -- God does not see us, but, instead sees the righteousness of Jesus Christ. We are told in Isaiah 1:18-19 that, although our sins are as scarlet -- once we repent and believe, we are "as white as snow, like pure white wool."

The Old Testament saints had this righteousness because they believed God and believed in their promised Messiah.

And, under the Dispensation of Grace, i.e., the New Testament, given us by Jesus Christ -- we read in Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

So, Max, you see that all people, Old Testament saints and New Testament saints, have salvation ONLY through Jesus Christ, the Messiah. He is the only WAY to God the Father (John 14:6) -- for all mankind. In Him we have eternal life, and His promise of eternal life in the presence of God. Without Him, there is only the promise of eternal destruction, eternal condemnation in the presence of Satan.

This is why I urge ALL of our Forum Friends to choose wisely; for the "free will" choice we make in this mortal life, before that last breath -- WILL determine our eternal destination: heaven or hell. There are no other choices.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Wednesday, July 14, 2010

Are New Age, Wicca, And Christianity Compatible?

So often, over the years, I have heard people say, "I'm a Christian, but, I see nothing wrong with psychics, astrology, and superstitions." That is basically what my Forum Friend was saying when she told us she is a New Age/Christian/Wiccan. Sorry, no way. New Age and Wiccan are the antithesis, the total opposite, of Christianity. One cannot be short and tall, one cannot be fat and skinny -- and one cannot be New Age or Wiccan and be a Christian believer. Yet, on the Religion Forum I am chastised for pointing this out to my misguided Friend.

Yet, we all know that when we share the Gospel, there will be many who will disagree, many who will attempt to discredit us and the Gospel. Jesus told us, in Luke 6:22, "Blessed are you when men hate you, and ostracize you, and insult you, and scorn your name as evil, for the sake of the Son of Man." And, in 1 Peter 4:14, we are told that this brings us blessings. So, praise God -- I am blessed!

Please feel free to share this with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's all keep sharing the Word of God, sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- until He returns.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi to my Forum Friends,

In another discussion begun by O No titled "Why We Are Here" my Forum Friend, B50, wrote, "It was a humbling moment. So I guess God can work through a New Age/Christian/Wiccan."

And, I responded to her with, "Not that I want to burst your bubble -- but, there is NO WAY a person can be New Age and Wiccan -- and be a Christian believer. The two are totally polar opposites. If you think you can wear both coats -- you are only fooling yourself."

Then, O No tells me, "I truly do believe that Bill, wittingly or unwittingly, IS working for the other side. The way he slams people who he KNOWS are believers, the way he insults people and tries to denigrate them. We all KNOW that is not Christian behavior! Bill pushes people AWAY from Christ by his actions and his venomous words."

O No, my Friend, when B50 tells us that she follows the New Age religion, this is what is meant:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Age

The New Age (also referred to as the New Age movement, New Age spirituality, and Cosmic Humanism) is a decentralized Western social and spiritual movement . . . It includes aspects of Occultism, astrology, esotericism, metaphysics, alternative medicine, music, collectivism, sustainability, and nature.

The New Age movement includes elements of older spiritual and religious traditions ranging from atheism and monotheism through classical pantheism, . . . New Age practices and philosophies sometimes draw inspiration from major world religions: Buddhism, Chinese folk religion, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism; with particularly strong influences from East Asian religions, Gnosticism, Neopaganism, New Thought, Spiritualism, Theosophy, Universalism, and Western esotericism.


When B50 tells us that she follows the Wiccan religion, this is what is meant:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca

Wicca is a Neopagan religion and a form of modern witchcraft. It is often referred to as Witchcraft or the Craft by its adherents, who are known as Wiccans or Witches. Its disputed origins lie in England in the early 20th century, though it was first popularized during the 1950s by Gerald Gardner, a retired British civil servant, who at the time called it the "witch cult" and "witchcraft", and its adherents "the Wica." >From the 1960s the name of the religion was normalized to "Wicca."

Wicca is typically a duotheistic religion, worshipping a Goddess and a God, who are traditionally viewed as the Triple Goddess and Horned God. These two deities are often viewed as being facets of a greater pantheistic Godhead, and as manifesting themselves as various polytheistic deities. Nonetheless, there are also other theological positions within the Craft, ranging from monotheism to atheism.


So, anyone telling us that he/she can follow a New Age religion, can follow the Wiccan religion -- and still be a Christian believer -- has NO idea what it means to be a Christian believer. As I have said many times before, New Age/Wiccan and Christianity are polar opposites.

One cannot be both. That would be analogous to saying, "I am going to spend eternity in heaven and in hell." No. Not possible. Sorry, my Friend -- that is totally impossible. One has to make a choice between the two -- just as one HAS to make a choice between world religions and Christianity.

O No, if you consider what I write to be "venomous words" -- I must suggest that you confuse the Gospel with "venomous words." And, as the apostle Paul tells us in Romans 1:16, "For I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes. . ." The key words here are "everyone who believes" -- and one cannot believe in and follow Jesus Christ while following antiChristian world religions.

My Friend, you accuse me of serving the wrong side. Do you think that, maybe, by trying to hold hands with all sides; you may be doing just what you accuse me of doing?

Joshua 24:15, "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

If you still disagree with me, you might want to do more research on the New Age, Wiccan, and other world religions -- and their relationships with Christianity. And, just possibly, you might want to take an introspective look inside to see if it is Bill Gray with whom you disagree -- or God.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Saturday, July 10, 2010

Two Extremes: Calvinism & Arminianism -
Let's Meet In The Middle!

Recently, a Friend sent me a message asking, "I have been reading a lot lately about theology. What is your view regarding Calvinism and Arminianism? Where do you stand on both -- and why?"

Where do I stand on Calvinism and Arminianism? Pretty much in the middle between the two. While there are teachings in both theologies which I agree with -- there are issues in both which I believe are not Biblical. Let's take a look at each:

CALVINISM: The doctrines and teachings of Calvinism are defined by the Five Points of Calvinism which are usually illustrated by the acronym T U L I P.

T -- Total Depravity: Sin has affected all parts of man. The heart, emotions, will, mind, and body are all affected by sin. We are completely sinful. We are not as sinful as we could be -- but we are completely affected by sin.

U -- Unconditional Election: Some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21). God chooses to save people unconditionally; that is, they are not chosen on the basis of their own merit. The reason it is called Unconditional Election -- is because there is "no condition" through which man can choose, of his own "free will" -- to follow Jesus Christ and have eternal salvation. Those saved are chosen arbitrarily; like in a lotto; some win, some lose.

L -- Limited Atonement: The sacrifice of Christ on the cross was only for the purpose of saving the elect, those "predestined" -- chosen before the Creation to be saved. His death was not meant to offer salvation to all people. Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus' sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not meant for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect.

I -- Irresistible Grace: When God has chosen to save someone, He will. When God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist. God offers to all people the Gospel message. This is called the external call. But to the elect, God extends an internal call and it cannot be resisted.

P -- Perseverance Of The Saints: You cannot lose your salvation. Because the Father has elected, the Son has redeemed, and the Holy Spirit has applied salvation -- those thus saved are eternally secure. Those people God chooses cannot lose their salvation; they will continue to believe. If they fall away, it will be only for a time.

The doctrines and teachings of Calvinism which I believe are not Biblical are:

U - Unconditional Election, which is another name for Predestination -- lotto style salvation; some win, some lose. Nothing a person can do to gain salvation if he/she was not chosen before the Creation. How secure does that make YOU feel?

L - Limited Atonement, which teaches that Jesus Christ did not die for all people as we are told in John 3:16; but, only for those chosen, i.e., predestined, before the Creation to be saved. If you were not chosen before the Creation -- on the cross, He did not know you. Can you believe that Jesus Christ -- did NOT die for YOU on the cross? If you believe Calvinism -- maybe He did not. But, how are YOU to know?

I -- Irresistible Grace: When God has chosen to save someone, He will be saved, whether he wants to be saved or not. In other words, man does not have the "free will" to choose to follow Jesus Christ or to deny Jesus Christ.

Calvinism teaches Predestination, that ONLY those people chosen before the Creation to be saved -- will be saved. And, it teaches that everyone chosen before Creation to be saved -- will be saved, regardless. They will have no choice. In other words, Calvinism teaches that we do not have the "free will" to choose to follow Jesus Christ or to deny Him.

Ephesians 1:13 tells us, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the Gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."

This tells me that those who heard the Gospel being preached and believed -- were saved, sealed in Him by the Holy Spirit. Are the Calvinists telling us that God closed the ears of those He did not want saved -- so that they could not hear the Gospel and believe?

Calvinist, themselves, do not believe this -- for under Irresistible Grace above, we are told, "God offers to all people the Gospel message." If God offers the Gospel message to all people -- and some believe -- can they not be saved as Ephesians 1:13 tell us? Not according to the Calvinist doctrine of Predestination.

I do not believe my God would do that to a person who sincerely wants to hear and believe.

Where I agree with Calvinism is their teaching of Total Depravity, that man, with his sin nature inherited from Adam, is lost in sin and only the Holy Spirit can lead him to salvation in Jesus Christ. Yet, I will state that I believe Jesus Christ gave us the Great Commandment (Matthew 28:19-20, Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15) because we are to be Sowers of Salvation Seeds -- to all people, not just those predestined to be saved. And, when we are evangelizing; how do we know who was predestined -- and who was not?

I believe that we Christian believers sow seeds of salvation through our evangelism; that others water and nourish those seeds through their evangelism -- but, only the Holy Spirit can harvest those seeds and bring the person to saving faith in Jesus Christ.

If we witness to people not predestined to be saved; aren't we wasting the Gospel on them? Would it not be better to put all of our witnessing effort toward evangelizing only those predestined to be saved? But, how do we know the difference?

And, I agree with Calvinism that one cannot lose his/her salvation. Yet, Calvinism teaches "once saved, always saved" only for those arbitrarily chosen by God before the Creation. I believe that ALL can, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ, be saved. And, once saved, always saved -- for if a person can lose his salvation this makes a liar of Jesus Christ who tells us, "He who believes HAS eternal life" (John 6:47).

Calvinism says: because of man's sinfulness, God must predestine people into salvation -- or none would be saved. This is because Calvinism denies the gift of "free will" which God gave to man.

ARMINIANISM: The Five Points of Arminianism are:

• Human Free Will: This states that, though man is fallen and will always have the curse of his sin nature -- he still has the "free will" to make a choice to follow God and be saved. His will is not restricted and enslaved by his sinful nature. All people have the God-given attribute of "free will" -- the ability to choose to follow Jesus Christ or to deny Jesus Christ.

• Conditional Election: God, in His omniscience, knows all things; there is nothing He does not know -- from eternity past to eternity future. Therefore, in His "foreknowledge" -- His knowing what you and I will do throughout our entire life -- He knows who will follow Jesus Christ -- and who will deny Jesus Christ. Those who will follow Jesus Christ -- are predestined to eternal life with God.

• Universal Atonement: Jesus Christ died on the cross to offer salvation to ALL (". . . whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" -- John 3:16) -- who will, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- believe and receive His "free gift."

• Resistible Grace: That because God had given man the gift of "free will" -- man can choose to resist the grace of God and reject salvation in Jesus Christ.

• Fall From Grace: The Teaching that a person can fall from grace and lose his salvation.

While I agree with the first four Points of Arminianism; the last, to fall from grace and lose your salvation, is totally unBiblical.

Arminianism teaches that everyone can be saved -- if we will, by grace, through faith, believe and receive His "free gift" of salvation. However, the Arminians go over the cliff on the other side -- saying that a person can loose his/her salvation by sinning. If that were true -- absolutely no one would be saved -- for we all sin (Romans 3:23).

And, since we are told in Ephesians 4:30, "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption" -- the teaching that we can lose our salvation makes a liar of God. God, in this Scripture verse, tells us we are sealed for, or until, the day of redemption. Yet, the Arminian teaching tells us that this is not true -- and that, if one sins, he/she will lose his/her salvation.

Personally, I stand where I believe the Bible stands -- right in the middle between these two teachings. I agree with Arminianism that Jesus Christ died on the cross to make salvation available to everyone who will, by grace, through faith -- believe and receive His "free gift" of salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9).

And, I agree with the Calvinist that once a person is saved, sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, he/she cannot lose that salvation. Salvation is a "free gift" from God -- and God does not give a gift -- and then take it away.

Several points come to mind regarding Calvinism:

Calvinist believe that God predestined before Creation, i.e., God arbitrarily decided before He created the heavens and the earth -- who will be saved and spend eternity with Him. And, He arbitrarily chose before the Creation who will spend eternity in hell with Satan.

If that is true, YOU have to ask yourself: If God created man for fellowship, to love, worship, and honor Him -- if He created man from His love; why would He allow Satan to have the "free will" to turn from Him; but, will not allow man to have that same "free will"? Does this sound like the God of the Bible, where we read, "God is love" (1 John 4:8, 4:16).

If Calvinism is true and God did indeed predetermine, before the Creation, who will be saved and who will spend eternity in hell -- how do YOU know that YOU were predestined for salvation? Do those who have been predestined for eternal life with God have a special mark on them?

Does the Holy Spirit give the chosen people a "special revelation" telling each chosen person that he/she has been saved? If this is true -- have YOU been given that "special revelation" -- that special message from the Holy Spirit? If not, do you really believe that God has turned His back on you and that you cannot be saved? That is what Calvinism teaches.

Calvinism will tell you that if, in God's foreknowledge, He predestined people according to His foreknowledge of the choice each person will make in his/her lifetime -- then, that negates "free will." First, Calvinism tells us that they do not believe God gave us "free will" -- then, they use the loss of "free will" to allow them to negate His foreknowledge. They seem to want their cake and to eat it, too.

Romans 8:29-30, "For those whom He foreknew -- He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified."

This tells me that God foreknew who He would predestine. What does this mean, to foreknow? It means that God knew from the foundation of the earth who will choose to follow Jesus Christ and who will reject Him. Calvinists will say that this takes away our "free will" to make a choice. No. It says that God foreknew -- it does not say that God fore-destined. Man still has the "free will" to believe or deny; nothing changes that. However, since God is omniscient -- He foreknew the decision YOU will make regarding Jesus Christ. Now, doesn't this sound more like the God you have chosen to worship?

Regarding Arminianism:

If, as Arminianism teaches, we can lose our salvation if we sin -- and given the fact that we all sin (Romans 3:23) -- how can anyone know they are saved, how can anyone be saved?

1 John 1:8, "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."

1 John 1:10, "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us."

REGARDING BOTH CALVINISM AND ARMINIANISM: Let's take a look at the teachings of Jesus Christ:

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son HAS eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, HAS eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but HAS passed out of death into life.

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes HAS eternal life."

John 3:15, "So that whoever believes will in Him HAVE eternal life."

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but HAVE eternal life."

John 6:40, "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will HAVE eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

1 John 5:13, "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may KNOW that you HAVE eternal life."

Does anyone see, in any of those Scripture verses, a single instance where it reads, "will have eternal life IF. . ." or "may have eternal life IF. . ." or "could have eternal life IF. . ."? No, Jesus Christ is telling us that, ". . .he who believes HAS eternal life."

Notice that these verses do not say, "He, who was predestined before Creation, and believes, HAS eternal life."

One point I would like to emphasize: When interpreting the Bible, i.e., hermeneutics, if you have several Scripture verses or passage that you believe say one thing -- but, you find another verse or passage which you know says something different; you do not have the correct interpretation.

While both Calvinism and Arminianism base their theologies on Scripture verses and passages -- both are establishing their theology by ignoring other verses and passages which contradict their interpretation. The Bible cannot contradict the Bible. So, when Calvinism quotes Scripture passages which they use to support their doctrine of predestination and limited atonement -- they are refusing to look at other Biblical verses and passages which absolutely deny that doctrine.

And, when Arminianism quotes Scripture verses and passages which they use to support their doctrine of salvation lost, they are ignoring other Biblical verses and passages, shown above, which absolutely deny that doctrine.

The Bible shines light upon the Bible -- however, the Bible NEVER contradicts the Bible.

Although a person may teach Calvinism or Arminianism; this does not mean he is not our Christian brother. However, Jesus Christ came to assure us that "whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but HAVE eternal life."

Romans 5:1, "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

How can a Calvinist have "peace with God" if he does not know for sure that he was elected, chosen, before Creation? How can this person have "peace with God" and want to follow Jesus Christ -- if he does not know if he was predestined before Creation to have eternal life with God?

How can an Arminianist have "peace with God" if he is always worried that he will sin and lose the salvation which Jesus Christ purchased with His blood on the cross? How can an Arminianist have "peace with God" -- if he cannot accept that Jesus Christ "paid in full" his sin debt to God when He died on the cross?

In Hebrews 2:17 we are told that we have a High Priest, Jesus Christ, to make propitiation for the sins of the people -- not just the elect -- but the PEOPLE -- all who will, by grace, through faith, believe and receive Him.

Hebrews 10:19-23, "Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful."

I cannot accept either Calvinism or Arminianism -- because I do have a High Priest in Jesus Christ, and with a heart in full assurance of faith -- I look forward to eternal life with Him -- "for He who promised is faithful."

I pray that YOU have that same assurance of faith -- and that you will share it with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing the complete Word of God; let's keep sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ to all we meet -- until He returns.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill Gray

Friday, June 18, 2010

What Does The Qur'an Say Regarding Infidels?

While we, as Christian believers, are called by our Lord Jesus Christ to love everyone; we must realize that not all people are called by their religions to love us. Though I would never advocate hatred against any person or any group of people; we must be aware that there are a vast number of people in the Muslim world who hate us -- as both Christians and as Americans. This is a fact which will not change until our Lord returns to bring true peace to earth.

On the Religion Forum, my liberal, atheist, secular, and vanilla-flavored non-believer Friends will always challenge me, as a Conservative Christian, on most issues. In this case, it is because I have written that Islam is truly not a "religion of peace." That is not an indictment against all of the people in the Islamic religion; nor is it an indictment against Islam. It is just a statement borne out by the actions of the Islamic nations and the words of the Qur'an.

Yet, we are called to share the Word of God with our Muslim friends -- for many of us have seen faithful witnessing bear fruit in bringing friends out of Islam and into the arms of Jesus Christ. I know that my dear Friend, Pastor Sam Lacanienta, has led several Muslims to Jesus Christ; I have missionary Friends who are working with Muslim communities and I have no doubt there will be fruit from their endeavors.

The best example, to my knowledge, of faithful witnessing bearing great fruit is Dr. Ergun Caner, President and Dean of the Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary and Graduate School, and his brother, Dr. Emir Caner, President of Truett-McConnell College, a Baptist school in Georgia. Both were Sunni Muslims who converted to Christianity as teenagers in high school. These two brothers are great examples of the result of faithful and persistent witnessing. Ergun Caner's teenage high school friend, a Baptist, is responsible for this blessing.

This article is not to knock our Muslim friends; only to respond to questions on the Religion Forum and to present facts which may be helpful to you. Please feel free to share this with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing the Word of God and the Gospel of Jesus Christ with all the world -- until He returns.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill Gray

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi to my Forum Friends,

In the discussion I began titled "Reports Say Obama Admitted He's a Muslim" -- Hay responds, "Mostly your information comes from one point of view and is only defended from the sources that give that one point of view. And in the end, what does it matter if Obama is a Muslim? Open your eyes and see that every Muslim isn't a terrorist, they are law abiding citizens just looking to practice their religion beliefs. We don't lump all Christians in with Fred Phelps or the many cults that continually pop up, do we?

You can sit here and say 'my religion is right, you have to be mine' all you want, but in the end, you have no more say about what is correct than anyone else. Just because you grew up a Christian, or were exposed to Christianity (more) than any other religion doesn't mean it is the 'end all, be all' of religions"


Hay, first, I did not grow up a Christian. I wish I had; but, unfortunately, I did not become a Christian believer until I was fifty.

Regarding Islam being a "religion of peace" -- you need to study it a wee bit more. No "religion of peace" will tell its followers to convert all the infidels (by the way, that is you and me) or destroy them.

Then, my Friend, Logical, asks me, "Have you actually read any of the Qur'an?"

Logical, while I do not make a practice of studying the Qur'an, I do have a copy sent to me by CAIR. In recognizing false religions or teachings, I prefer to use the FBI standard on how they recognize false currency. How are they taught to recognize false currency? By studying real currency until they know it like the back of their own hand; then, a false currency will stand out like a sore thumb.

The same with faith; study the Written Word of God, the Bible, until you know it like the back of your hand -- and, then, false religions and teachings will stand out like a sore thumb.

But, back to the Qur'an. In my Qur'an, Surah 9:5, I read, "And so, when the sacred months are over, slay those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God (Allah for them) wherever you may come upon them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every conceivable place. Yet if they repent, and take to prayer (Islamic prayer), and render the purifying dues, let them go their way: for, behold, God (Allah) is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace." Parenthetical emphasis is mine.

As you can see, when the Qur'an was translated to be distributed by the CAIR, they were careful to use the name God, and not Allah. However, in the online version below, you will see that it is still Allah and not God. And, contrary to liberal, secular, and atheist teachings, Allah and God are definitely not the same.

The verse below is from the web site: Interpretation of the Meanings of The Noble Quran, Published by Dar-us-Salam Publications http://www.dar-us-salam.com/TheNobleQuran/index.html

Surah 9:5, "Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikan (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

In my copy of the Qur'an, there are footnotes which tell us, "There shall be no coercion in matters of faith" and "war is permissible only in self defense." If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I will sell you very cheap.

Consider the history of Mohammed and his ravaging of trade caravans to fund his army -- consider the history of Islam's spread -- consider 9-11 -- consider the pubic beheading of the American journalist and many other kidnapped captives -- ask anyone who has heard the rantings of many Islamic holy men on television -- ask anyone who has heard Iran's president and many Arab leaders call for the annihilation of Israel and the Great Satan, America. Then, tell me that Islam is a "religion of peace."

Should we, as Christian believers, turn away from our Islamic friends? No. We should pray for them; we should, when possible, share the true Word of God with them. But, we must never be deceived into believing that the vast Islamic community, in America, in Britain, in Europe, across the Middle East -- wants to be friends with America or with Americans.

As I said, in those communities, even if it is not spoken publicly -- America is still the "Great Satan" -- the friend of Muslim's long hated enemy, Israel. If it were only a small minority of Muslims who feel this way; why do those who do not -- stay silent in support of the Militant Islamic Terrorists?

No, my Friend, this is the relationship between the descendants of Ishmael and the descendants of Isaac which will not be resolved in peace -- until our Lord Jesus Christ returns and establishes His Millennial Kingdom on earth. Then, for the first time since Ishmael and Isaac -- there will be peace upon the earth, ruled by the hand of Jesus Christ from the throne of David in Jerusalem, the holy city of God.

Until then, we share the Word of God with our Islamic friends, and all our friends -- but, we do not destroy our weapons of war, our means of self defense against terrorism and those who view us as the Great Satan to be destroyed, until Jesus Christ returns to give us true peace.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Friday, April 30, 2010

Eucharist - or - Communion?

While I do not want to always contend with our Roman Catholic brethren; I do feel that it is good that everyone better understand many of the issues where we disagree. That is my purpose in this dialogue; not to argue with or to prove my Friend, Neal, wrong -- but, so that we all my have a clearer understanding of these Biblical teachings and the related teachings of the liturgical churches. Neal is Episcopalian, not Roman Catholic. Yet, on issues such as we discuss in this dialogue, he leans heavily toward the Roman Catholic side.

If you find this useful, please feel free to share it with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing God's Word with the world -- until He returns.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi to my Forum Friends,

In the discussion I began titled "Did Jesus Leave Us Two Ordinances: Baptism And Communion?" -- Beter questions Neal/Aude on the use of the phrase "Words of Institution" which Neal tells us are required to bring about Transubstantiation, i.e, the change of the Eucharist or Communion elements of bread and wine into the actual Body and Blood of Christ.

Celebrating the Lord's Supper, i.e., remembering the Last Supper, can be called both Eucharist or Communion; for Eucharist is normally defined as: a Christian sacrament commemorating the Last Supper by consecrating bread and wine. However, most Protestants prefer Communion for two reasons.

First, because when we take the elements of bread and fruit of the vine, juice -- we are remembering our Lord Jesus Christ and what He has done for us -- and, we are in communion, i.e., fellowship, with Him and with like minded Christian believers. We are celebrating His life, death, and resurrection which He did for us. And, we reflect upon our own Christian life and what we can do to be more mature Christ Followers.

The second reason Protestants resist using the word Eucharist is because we relate this to the belief taught in the Roman Catholic and other liturgical churches -- that the elements, upon the prayer of a priest -- becomes the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ. To us, the mass and the Eucharist, are sacrificing Him over and over again. When, we know that He died once for all. We are to remember Him; not re-sacrifice Him.

Neal tells Beter, "That is because it is not a sacrament to you, no prayer to the Holy Spirit to come upon the elements and become the living Body and Blood of Christ. To us, it is not a memorial rite, rather a means of gaining grace and forgiveness of sins, we are assured that "He lives in us and we in Him." Not just figuratively, but literally and spiritually. A sacrament is not just an ordinance to us. It is the outward and visible sign of a inner and spiritual grace."

You say that through the priest pronouncing this prayer you call the "Words of Institution" -- the elements become the actual body and blood of Christ -- and then, when you consume Him, He lives within you.

The Bible tells us that He, the Holy Spirit, is within us the moment we become a Christian believer. Ephesians 1:13, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the Gospel of your salvation — having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."

At that time, the moment of salvation, Christ sends the Holy Spirit to indwell, reside in, all believers. If God, the Holy Spirit, is already in us -- how can we add more God, Jesus Christ? Either the glass is full or it is empty. If it is full -- you cannot add more. And, with Christian believers -- the glass of God within us is FULL.

Yet, we follow His command, His ordinance, which Jesus Christ left us to do, Communion -- in remembrance of Him. Luke 22:19, "And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."

Then, Neal tells us, "The bishops long ago decided what was to be in the formulae -- and their assistants, the priests, alongside their assistants and lay assistants, have either licenses or, in the case of deacons (are) ordained to preach and marry and proclaim the Gospel, and priests are given a share of the Holy Spirit's power by laying on of hands by the Bishop who is a latter day apostle."

You say the Bishop is a latter day apostle; yet, I find no mention of latter day apostles in the Bible.

Ephesians 4:11-13, "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ."

Here we see the designation of apostles and prophets which were active in the days of Jesus Christ and in the generation which was of Jesus Christ. An apostle is defined, in Acts 1:21-22, when Peter and the other ten remaining apostles took it upon themselves to elect a twelfth apostle after Judas committed suicide, "Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us — one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection." If a man did not actually walk with Jesus Christ and His apostles -- that man could not be an apostle. No man today can claim to have walked with Jesus and the apostles.

The last true apostle, John, died in Ephesus, about 100 AD. The last prophet, John the Baptist, died while Christ was still in His earthly ministry. This leaves only evangelists, pastors, and teachers. We have in 1 Timothy 3:1-7, the appointment of the overseer, in the King James called the bishop. But, if we are to view this passage and Titus 1:5-9 to mean bishop as you do in the liturgical churches -- then all pastors, i.e, priests should be called bishops. A more common usage of the the Greek word "episkope" is to translate it as elder or pastor. Strong's Concordance defines it as: the office of an elder, the overseer or presiding officers of a Christian church.

While many Southern Baptists do ordain deacons; this is not the practice of all Baptist churches; nor even of all Southern Baptist churches. In the Baptist General Conference, i.e., General Baptists, our local churches can have both elders and deacons. Elders are the spiritual leaders of the church. This would include the pastors who, being ordained, can preside at weddings. But, the elders are not ordained. They are chosen from the more mature men of the church and help the pastor or pastors in the spiritual leadership of the local church.

The deacons and deaconesses are the ones who keep the local church running on a daily basis -- caring for the facilities, the needs of church members, making sure that all is done to assure that the worship services go smoothly, etc. In Acts 6, where we read of the twelve apostles of the early church choosing seven mature men to be deacons, we will find the duties of the deacons and deaconesses defined -- to take care of the daily needs of the local church, the local body of believers -- while the apostles, i.e., the elders, devoted themselves to the spiritual needs of the church.

However, in smaller churches, or new church plants -- there may only be elders who will do both tasks. For several years, I was one of three elders in a Baptist General Conference church of less that 100 people; and we assumed the roles of both elder and deacon.

But, nowhere in Scripture do we find latter day apostles, bishops, archbishops, cardinals, and popes described, defined, or designated.

Neal, you tell us, "They are under the bishop's rule and allowed to share their sacerdotal power in pronouncing of forgiveness of sins in the name of the Holy Trinity, and of calling down the Holy Spirit to make the bread and wine holy, the continuation of the Last Sacrifice of Our Lord. It is a sacrifice of praise and faith, but He becomes present and we do consume him, unworthy as we are. By that we are assured we are free of all sin we have confessed and for which we are truly sorry and do repent and resolve to seek the aid of the Holy Spirit to avoid further sin."

Have you really read what you have written? The priest can forgive sins? I looked for other sources of this statement and found this:

THE CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12406a.htm

The Christian law also has necessarily its priesthood to carry out the Divine service, the principal act of which is the Eucharistic Sacrifice, the figure and renewal of that of Calvary. This priesthood has two degrees: the first, total and complete, the second an incomplete participation of the first. The first belongs to the bishop. The bishop is truly a priest (sacerdos), and even a high-priest; he has chief control of the Divine worship (sacrorum antistes), is the president of liturgical meetings; he has the fullness of the priesthood, and administers all the sacraments.

The second degree belongs to the priest (presbyter), who is also a sacerdos, but of the second rank ("secundi sacerdotes" Innocent I ad Eugub.); by his priestly ordination he receives the power to offer sacrifice (i.e. to celebrate the Eucharist), to forgive sins, to bless, to preach, to sanctify, and in a word to fulfill the non-reserved liturgical duties or priestly functions. In the exercise of these functions, however, he is subject to the authority of the bishop to whom he has promised canonical obedience; in certain cases even he requires not only authorization, but real jurisdiction, particularly to forgive sins.

Neal, we have only one High Priest. "Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people" (Hebrews 2:17).

And, even the Pharisees knew that "only God can forgive sins." This is one of their accusations against Jesus Christ -- that He claimed to forgive sins (Mark 2:1-12). Yet, what they were missing was -- that He is God and can forgive sins. Neither a pastor or priest, nor even the pope, is God and can forgive sins. No man, no human, can forgive sins. Only God can forgive sins. And, we have only ONE Mediator between God and man -- the Man, Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5).

And, you say, "and of calling down the Holy Spirit to make the bread and wine holy, the continuation of the Last Sacrifice of Our Lord."

We are told over and over again, in Scripture that Jesus Christ died once for all. There is not place in Scripture that tells us to "continue the Last Sacrifice of Our Lord."

Romans 6:10, "For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God."

Hebrews 7:27, "Who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for alll when He offered up Himself."

Hebrews 9:12, "And not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption."

Hebrews 10:10, "By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

1 Pete 3:18, "For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit."

Yet, you tell us that you "continue the Last Sacrifice of Our Lord." Either the Bible is wrong -- or you are wrong. Which is it?

Finally, you tell us, "It is a reenactment of the first Holy Communion which was on Maundy Thursday, just before He was betrayed and given over to suffering and death."

In essence, you and I agree on this. Yet, I would call it the Last Supper; not the First Communion -- for He had not yet died on the cross. Maundy merely means "command" -- in other words, the command He left us during that Last Supper on the Thursday before He died on the cross on Friday -- that through Communion with Him and other saints, we are to remember Him until He returns.

Neal, what I have shared comes from the Bible -- which is the Sole Authority, the Written Word of God, for all Christian believers. It is our User's Manual to teach us and guide us in all aspects of our Christian life, to teach us that we are to be about the task of bringing the unsaved to Christ for salvation. We need no other authority; we need no other traditions; we need no other rituals. He has given us ALL we need to gain salvation and to help others gain salvation. All we have to do is to accept His "free gift" of salvation -- and be Christ Followers.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill Gray