Who Is To Blame - God Or You?

So many non-believers want to blame God -- instead of looking within themselves. They will ask, "How can a loving God condemn anyone to spend eternity in hell?" And, the answer: God does not condemn anyone to hell.

Each person, individually, either chooses salvation and eternal life in Jesus Christ -- or they choose eternity in hell with Satan.

Each person's eternal destination depends solely upon the decision he/she makes in this life. Each person must decide to receive eternal life in Jesus Christ -- or to reject Him. Everyone who is in Hades/Torment and who goes to hell for eternity -- can only blame himself or herself -- not God.

That is the heart of the discussion below: Who is to blame -- God or you?

Share this with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing the Word of God, let's keep reaching out to the unsaved and the unchurched, sharing with them the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- until He returns.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill Gray

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Hi to all my Forum Friends,

In the discussion which I began titled "Using 'OMG' And The 'F Word On Public Forums" -- our Forum Friend, HoldenMyOwn, told me, "Mr. Gray, Assuming you believe in the Bible... Your Bible states numerous times that I do not deserve to live and that I will burn in hell for all eternity. I say "OMG." And you say that "I" am the one that is being disrespectful? Does that honestly make sense to you?"

Holden, if the city, county, or state where you live has a law which says that driving 90 mph through a school zone is against their law -- and you do it anyway; who is to blame -- them for having and enforcing the law -- or you for breaking that law?

In the Old Testament, God gave the people of Israel certain laws -- and He gave them the punishment for breaking those laws. If a person still broke His laws; who is to blame for that person being punished -- God or that person?

God gave the Israelites the Ten Commandments and His Laws expanding upon those commandments. He knew that no one would be able to keep all of His commandments all the time. Why could they not keep those commandments? Because, when Adam fell into sin by disobeying God, from that moment on -- Adam and all his descendants have a sin nature. Man, by his very nature, is sinful.

But, on the other hand, God being a loving God and wanting all people to come to repentance, gave man a means of atoning for his sins, i.e., atonement for breaking the Law. He gave them animal sacrifices they could do to atone for their sins. These animal sacrifices were the precursor for the real "Once For All" Sacrifice which was to come -- Jesus Christ.

The Old Testament Jews had to keep offering animal sacrifices, over and over, to continually atone for their sins. When Jesus Christ came, He became the final Sacrifice, once for all. He was the Perfect Sacrifice -- and, in that respect, the Law had been fulfilled.

Once the Law had been fulfilled in Jesus Christ; He brought us into the dispensation of Grace, the era or period of Grace. We read in John 1:17, "For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ."

So, from the time Israel was given the Law at Mount Sinai, until the Day of Pentecost, the world was in the Biblical Dispensation of the Law and needed continual sacrifices to atone for their sins. On the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2) the Christian church, the body of believers, began with the coming of the Holy Spirit upon the 120 disciples in the Upper Room.

And, this was the initiation of the Dispensation of Grace. We will be in the Dispensation, or Period, of Grace until the Second Coming of Jesus Christ at the end of the seven year Tribulation. At this time, He will establish His Millennial Kingdom and thus begins the Kingdom Age, the kingdom of God on earth.

Now that Jesus Christ has brought us into the Dispensation of Grace -- by the Grace of God, through FAITH in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9) -- every person has an opportunity to be forgiven and to receive His "free gift" of salvation, eternal life in Christ.

So, Holden, when you tell me, "Your Bible states numerous times that I do not deserve to live and that I will burn in hell for all eternity."

No, the Bible tells us that if you continue to reject the "free gift" of salvation, which has already been purchased and "paid in full" by Jesus Christ on the cross -- YOU are condemning yourself to burn in hell for eternity.

Up until your last breath in your mortal body -- you can repent, i.e., turn from following the world and turn to following Jesus Christ. Once you have breathed that last breath in your mortal -- your eternal destination is set in concrete. At that point, absolutely nothing can change your eternal home.

If, before you die, you do repent and receive Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior -- you will spend eternity in the glorious presence of God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and all of your loved ones and friends who have died as believers.

If, when you die, you have not received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior -- you will spend eternity in the horrific, evil presence of Satan, eternity in hell.

The ONLY unforgivable sin is to die without having Jesus Christ in your heart, without a saving relationship with Him.

Up until that last breath -- there is always a chance to repent and follow Jesus Christ. But, the danger of waiting that long -- is that none of us know when that last breath will occur. We could be in the best of health one minute -- and dead the next.

When I was 25, I worked of Ramo Wooldridge (early version of TRW). One Friday we had a party and I became good friends with one of our programmers, a guy my age. He was excited because he was getting married the next week. His parents were out from the Mid West and all things were "Go" for their wedding. Sunday morning his parents went to his apartment and found him dead. He had died of a heart attack in his sleep. Absolutely no indication of any problems before.

Several years later, I worked for Scientific Data Systems in Santa Monica. One Monday morning I went to the tool room to get some new tools -- and the young man who worked there, 21 years old, was not in the tool cage. I was told that he had died of a heart attack over the weekend. Once again, no indication of any problems -- until they found him dead -- at 21 years old.

None of us have a guaranty of that next breath. So, Holden, and all of my Forum Friends who are not yet Christian believers -- do not gamble that you will always have more time. There is no guaranty. The only promise, the only guaranty, you have is: If you die as a believer, you WILL spend eternity with God -- and, if you die as a non-believer, you WILL spend eternity with Satan in hell.

So, why gamble with something so important? Take that "sure bet" and get right with God -- right now -- while there is still time.

Is this a "hell-fire and darnation" sermon? No, my Friends, just the truth -- shared in love. I want so much to meet you in heaven one day. Please do not disappoint me.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

No Mosque Near Ground Zero!

It has been sixteen years since my mother went home to be with the Lord; yet, her memory is still very fresh and very precious to me. It has been nine years since the Massacre at the World Trade Center; yet, the memory of lost loved ones and of lost fellow Americans is still very fresh and very precious to the families and friends of all those lost on September 11, 2001 -- and to all Americans. These memories not only should be honored, they MUST be honored -- if America is to remain the beacon of hope for the poor and persecuted of the world.

The article below is not written from a Christian's point of view; for Charles Krauthammer of the Washington Post is not a Christian believer. It is written from the point of view of a sensitive, sincere, conservative American who tells us to honor our dead and to not allow their memory to be desecrated.

Read this article, form you own opinion, and then be sure to let your elected leaders, and Mayor Bloomberg, know how you feel.

The White House: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

Find your Senators: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

Find your Congressman: http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml

Mayor Bloomberg: http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/mayor.html

Please share this with ALL your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Just as we honor and protect the memory of Gettysburg, Pearl Harbor, Auschwitz, etc. -- let us continue to honor and protect the memory of those lost on September 11, 2001.

No Mosque Near Ground Zero!

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WHY A MOSQUE DOES NOT BELONG NEAR GROUND ZERO
Charles Krauthammer, The Washington Post Writers Group
Published: August 17. 2010 4:00AM PST
http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100817/NEWS0107/8170332

A place is made sacred by a widespread belief that it was visited by the miraculous or the transcendent (Lourdes, the Temple Mount), by the presence there once of great nobility and sacrifice (Gettysburg), or by the blood of martyrs and the indescribable suffering of the innocent (Auschwitz).

When we speak of ground zero as hallowed ground, what we mean is that it belongs to those who suffered and died there — and that such ownership obliges us, the living, to preserve the dignity and memory of the place, never allowing it to be forgotten, trivialized, or misappropriated.

That's why Disney's early-'90s proposal to build an American history theme park near Manassas Battlefield was defeated by a broad coalition fearing vulgarization of the Civil War. (The coalition was wiser than me. At the time I obtusely saw little harm in the venture.) It's why the commercial viewing tower built right on the border of Gettysburg was taken down by the Park Service. It's why, while no one objects to Japanese cultural centers, the idea of putting one up at Pearl Harbor would be offensive.

And why Pope John Paul II ordered Carmelite nuns to leave the convent they had established at Auschwitz. He was in no way devaluing their heartfelt mission to pray for the souls of the dead. He was teaching them a lesson in respect: This is not your place, it belongs to others. However pure your voice, better to let silence reign.

Even New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who denounced opponents of the proposed 15-story mosque and Islamic center near ground zero as tramplers on religious freedom, asked the mosque organizers "to show some special sensitivity to the situation."

Yet, as columnist Rich Lowry pointedly noted, the government has no business telling churches how to conduct their business, shape their message, or show "special sensitivity" to anyone about anything. Bloomberg was thereby "inadvertently" conceding the claim of those he excoriates for opposing the mosque, namely, that ground zero is indeed unlike any other place and therefore unique criteria govern what can be done there.

Bloomberg's implication is clear: If the proposed mosque were controlled by "insensitive" Islamist radicals either excusing or celebrating 9/11, he would not support its construction.

But then, why not? By the mayor's own expansive view of religious freedom, by what right do we dictate the message of any mosque? Moreover, as a practical matter, there's no guarantee this couldn't happen in the future. Religious institutions in this country are autonomous. Who is to say the mosque won't one day hire an Anwar al-Aulaqi — spiritual mentor to the Fort Hood shooter and the Christmas Day bomber, and onetime imam at the Virginia mosque attended by two of the 9/11 terrorists?

An Aulaqi preaching in Virginia is a security problem. An Aulaqi preaching at ground zero is a sacrilege.

Location matters. Especially this location. Ground zero is the site of the greatest mass murder in American history — perpetrated by Muslims of a particular Islamist orthodoxy in whose cause they died and in whose name they killed.

Of course, that strain represents only a minority of Muslims. Islam is no more intrinsically Islamist than present-day Germany is Nazi — yet despite contemporary Germany's innocence, no German of good will would even think of proposing a German cultural center at, say, Treblinka.

Which makes you wonder about the good will behind Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf's proposal. This is a man who has called U.S. policy "an accessory to the crime" of 9/11 and, when recently asked whether Hamas is a terrorist organization, replied, "I'm not a politician. ... The issue of terrorism is a very complex question."

America is a free country where you can build whatever you want — but not anywhere. That's why we have zoning laws. No liquor store near a school, no strip malls where they offend local sensibilities, and, if your house doesn't meet community architectural codes, you cannot build at all.

These restrictions are for reasons of aesthetics. Others are for more profound reasons of common decency and respect for the sacred. No commercial tower over Gettysburg, no convent at Auschwitz — and no mosque at ground zero.

Build it anywhere but there.

The governor of New York offered to help find land to build the mosque elsewhere. A mosque really seeking to build bridges, Rauf's ostensible hope for the structure, would accept the offer.

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Think about it! Pray about it! Then, do something, contact your leaders!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill Gray

Prophecy And The Rest Of The Bible

Earlier, I wrote an article titled "When Is The Bible Literal And When Is it Symbolic?" and posted it on the TimesDaily Religion Forum. As you might expect, I have had a few responses -- from believers and from my atheist Friends. The one below seemed to be a good segue into talking about prophecy.

If you find this useful, please feel free to share it with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing His Gospel with the world -- and looking forward to His imminent return.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill Gray

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Hi Tigrtrek,

You tell us, "Making a determination of what's literal and what's symbolic is part of what is called rightly dividing the word of truth. When the Bible says that Jesus is the stone that the builders rejected it does not literally mean he is a rock. This is easy to pick out, but prophecy, which is largely symbolic, is more open to interpretation.

Many people dedicate their lives to studying prophecy and still don't have all the answers. I prefer to focus on the Gospels, the Epistles and the Old Testament. Whatever the future holds God will work out."

That is a good example of Biblical allegory -- Jesus the Rock. Thank you.

Like you, I enjoy the Gospels, Epistles, and the Old Testament. However, since about 30% of the Bible is prophecy -- how can we not focus on this? True, many people spend their lives studying prophecy -- but, that does not mean that we lay people should not also study it.

Often times, the Holy Spirit will give us a special insight when studying His Word. I remember, about twenty years ago, when I first began to study the End Times prophecies -- I was totally confused about who would be in the Millennial Kingdom and where would Satan, who had been locked in the abyss for one thousand years, raise his large army of non-believers to do battle against Jesus Christ and the holy city, Jerusalem.

One afternoon, as I was driving home from work, I was sitting at a traffic light. My mind was on the traffic light and getting home; not on the book of Revelation or even the Bible. Yet, all of a sudden, a thought came into my mind: When Jesus Christ returns at the end of the seven year Tribulation -- even though many, many people will have been killed by the Antichrist -- there will be many people who have survived the horrible Tribulation. This group will consist of both believers and non-believers.

These people will stand in judgment before Jesus Christ -- the Sheep and Goat Judgment found in Matthew 25:31-46 for the Gentile nations, and the Judgment of Israel found in Ezekiel 20:32-38 for the Jews. Those who are not believers will "go away into eternal punishment" (Matthew 25:46). To those who are believers, He will say, "Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you. . ." (Matthew 25:34). That kingdom is His Millennial Kingdom -- and, later, the eternal kingdom.

And, to the Jews, He will say, "'And I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will enter into judgment with you face to face. As I entered into judgment with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will enter into judgment with you,' declares the Lord GOD. 'I will make you pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant'" (Ezekiel
20:35-37)

This will be the remnant of Israel, His chosen people, who, with the believers from the Sheep and Goat Judgment, will enter the Millennial Kingdom, God's Kingdom on earth, in their mortal bodies.

So, the inhabitants of the Millennial Kingdom, ruled by Jesus Christ from the throne of David in Jerusalem, will consist of the Raptured church and the Old Testament saints in our immortal bodies -- and the believers who survive the Tribulation, both Jew and Gentile, in their mortal bodies. Those in their mortal bodies will continue to marry and bear children.

During the Millennial Kingdom, Satan will be locked in the abyss, so his demonic temptations will not exist on earth for that one thousand years. Those who enter the Millennial Kingdom will be believers. Yet, they and those born during the Millennial Kingdom will still bear the sin curse of Adam, they will have the Adamic sin nature curse. Only death or the Rapture can remove this curse.

And, having this sin nature -- the only way to have eternal salvation is still through Jesus Christ. Keep in mind -- He is the ONLY Way to God the Father. So, the people born during the Millennial Kingdom will still have to confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior to be saved.

Even though the Satanic influence has been removed for one thousand years; there will still be people born during this time who will, for whatever reason, not invite Jesus Christ to be their Lord and Savior. These people will not be causing death and destruction as we have on earth today -- for Jesus Christ will be the ruler of this world. Yet, some will choose not to follow Him and will not receive His imputed righteousness.

When Satan is released from the abyss after one thousand years; these people who have not made a commitment to Jesus Christ will be easy prey for him, as he lures them into his army. This is the army which will come against Jesus Christ and the holy city at the end of the Millennial Kingdom -- and they will all be supernaturally destroyed (Revelation 20:7-10).

Now, did the Holy Spirit reveal all this to me that day as I sat at the traffic light? No. He revealed to me about the people, the Tribulation survivors, who will enter the Millennial Kingdom in their mortal bodies. This so piqued my interest that I began my study of the End Times and Revelation in earnest.

And, over the years, layer after layer has been peeled back, as the Holy Spirit revealed to me more and more knowledge of the End Times. You might say that, although I had already been studying End Times prophecy -- that traffic light revelation birthed my desire to really understand End Time prophecy.

Another example of the Holy Spirit leading as we study Scripture: For years I had tried to read the book of Job -- and could not get past chapter one. One evening I was sitting on my patio studying the book of John. A cross reference sent me to Job 42:10, "The LORD restored the fortunes of Job when he prayed for his friends, and the LORD increased all that Job had twofold."

Once again, my interest was piqued -- and I began to read Job. For whatever reason, that night reading Job was as easy as reading an interesting novel -- it just flowed. That night I read and had a fairly good understanding of the book of Job -- and have since led a Bible study on it. Who or what led me to Job 42:10 that night? The Holy Spirit, of course.

John 14:26, "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."

Tigr, no part of the Bible is insignificant; but, most especially not God's revelations which He sends to us through His prophecies. Do not neglect 30% of His Written Word.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

What Does The Qur'an Say Regarding Infidels?

While we, as Christian believers, are called by our Lord Jesus Christ to love everyone; we must realize that not all people are called by their religions to love us. Though I would never advocate hatred against any person or any group of people; we must be aware that there are a vast number of people in the Muslim world who hate us -- as both Christians and as Americans. This is a fact which will not change until our Lord returns to bring true peace to earth.

On the Religion Forum, my liberal, atheist, secular, and vanilla-flavored non-believer Friends will always challenge me, as a Conservative Christian, on most issues. In this case, it is because I have written that Islam is truly not a "religion of peace." That is not an indictment against all of the people in the Islamic religion; nor is it an indictment against Islam. It is just a statement borne out by the actions of the Islamic nations and the words of the Qur'an.

Yet, we are called to share the Word of God with our Muslim friends -- for many of us have seen faithful witnessing bear fruit in bringing friends out of Islam and into the arms of Jesus Christ. I know that my dear Friend, Pastor Sam Lacanienta, has led several Muslims to Jesus Christ; I have missionary Friends who are working with Muslim communities and I have no doubt there will be fruit from their endeavors.

The best example, to my knowledge, of faithful witnessing bearing great fruit is Dr. Ergun Caner, President and Dean of the Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary and Graduate School, and his brother, Dr. Emir Caner, President of Truett-McConnell College, a Baptist school in Georgia. Both were Sunni Muslims who converted to Christianity as teenagers in high school. These two brothers are great examples of the result of faithful and persistent witnessing. Ergun Caner's teenage high school friend, a Baptist, is responsible for this blessing.

This article is not to knock our Muslim friends; only to respond to questions on the Religion Forum and to present facts which may be helpful to you. Please feel free to share this with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing the Word of God and the Gospel of Jesus Christ with all the world -- until He returns.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill Gray

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Hi to my Forum Friends,

In the discussion I began titled "Reports Say Obama Admitted He's a Muslim" -- Hay responds, "Mostly your information comes from one point of view and is only defended from the sources that give that one point of view. And in the end, what does it matter if Obama is a Muslim? Open your eyes and see that every Muslim isn't a terrorist, they are law abiding citizens just looking to practice their religion beliefs. We don't lump all Christians in with Fred Phelps or the many cults that continually pop up, do we?

You can sit here and say 'my religion is right, you have to be mine' all you want, but in the end, you have no more say about what is correct than anyone else. Just because you grew up a Christian, or were exposed to Christianity (more) than any other religion doesn't mean it is the 'end all, be all' of religions"

Hay, first, I did not grow up a Christian. I wish I had; but, unfortunately, I did not become a Christian believer until I was fifty.

Regarding Islam being a "religion of peace" -- you need to study it a wee bit more. No "religion of peace" will tell its followers to convert all the infidels (by the way, that is you and me) or destroy them.

Then, my Friend, Logical, asks me, "Have you actually read any of the Qur'an?"

Logical, while I do not make a practice of studying the Qur'an, I do have a copy sent to me by CAIR. In recognizing false religions or teachings, I prefer to use the FBI standard on how they recognize false currency. How are they taught to recognize false currency? By studying real currency until they know it like the back of their own hand; then, a false currency will stand out like a sore thumb.

The same with faith; study the Written Word of God, the Bible, until you know it like the back of your hand -- and, then, false religions and teachings will stand out like a sore thumb.

But, back to the Qur'an. In my Qur'an, Surah 9:5, I read, "And so, when the sacred months are over, slay those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God (Allah for them) wherever you may come upon them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every conceivable place. Yet if they repent, and take to prayer (Islamic prayer), and render the purifying dues, let them go their way: for, behold, God (Allah) is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace." Parenthetical emphasis is mine.

As you can see, when the Qur'an was translated to be distributed by the CAIR, they were careful to use the name God, and not Allah. However, in the online version below, you will see that it is still Allah and not God. And, contrary to liberal, secular, and atheist teachings, Allah and God are definitely not the same.

The verse below is from the web site: Interpretation of the Meanings of The Noble Quran, Published by Dar-us-Salam Publications http://www.dar-us-salam.com/TheNobleQuran/index.html

Surah 9:5, "Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikan (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

In my copy of the Qur'an, there are footnotes which tell us, "There shall be no coercion in matters of faith" and "war is permissible only in self defense." If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I will sell you very cheap.

Consider the history of Mohammed and his ravaging of trade caravans to fund his army -- consider the history of Islam's spread -- consider 9-11 -- consider the pubic beheading of the American journalist and many other kidnapped captives -- ask anyone who has heard the rantings of many Islamic holy men on television -- ask anyone who has heard Iran's president and many Arab leaders call for the annihilation of Israel and the Great Satan, America. Then, tell me that Islam is a "religion of peace."

Should we, as Christian believers, turn away from our Islamic friends? No. We should pray for them; we should, when possible, share the true Word of God with them. But, we must never be deceived into believing that the vast Islamic community, in America, in Britain, in Europe, across the Middle East -- wants to be friends with America or with Americans.

As I said, in those communities, even if it is not spoken publicly -- America is still the "Great Satan" -- the friend of Muslim's long hated enemy, Israel. If it were only a small minority of Muslims who feel this way; why do those who do not -- stay silent in support of the Militant Islamic Terrorists?

No, my Friend, this is the relationship between the descendants of Ishmael and the descendants of Isaac which will not be resolved in peace -- until our Lord Jesus Christ returns and establishes His Millennial Kingdom on earth. Then, for the first time since Ishmael and Isaac -- there will be peace upon the earth, ruled by the hand of Jesus Christ from the throne of David in Jerusalem, the holy city of God.

Until then, we share the Word of God with our Islamic friends, and all our friends -- but, we do not destroy our weapons of war, our means of self defense against terrorism and those who view us as the Great Satan to be destroyed, until Jesus Christ returns to give us true peace.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Who Is "Left Behind"?

While none of us gain, or fail to gain, salvation because of our beliefs about End Time prophecies - how we view Biblical prophecies can, and does, affect the peace of mind of Christian believers.  How can a person have peace in God when he/she does not believe what is written in the Bible authored by God?

The difference between the PreTribulation Rapture / PreMillennial Second Coming believer and the PostMillennial and Amillennial believers - is their view of Bible prophecies.  A PreTrib/PreMillennial believer views the Bible prophecies through the lense of literal interpretation, i.e., hermeneutics.  The Amillennialist does not believe there will be a literal Millennial Kingdom of God on earth and views Biblical prophecies as allegories and symbolism only.  And the PostMillennial believer is somewhere in between.

The PreTrib/PreMillianial believer interprets the complete Bible as the inspired, inerrant, literal Written Word of God - and that includes His prophecies.  Do we see every word of the Bible as being literal?  No, there are often times in Scripture where metaphors, allegories, and symbolism are used.  However, our approach is to first look at the passage as literal - and if the shoe fits, wear it.  If not, look for a figurative meaning.

Most PostMillennialist and Amillennialist view the Bible as literal - except for prophecies. These they spiritualize and allegorize.

So Amillenial believers will say that we are living in the Millennium now.  And as things get better and better - one day Jesus Christ will return, pass judgement, and immediately send non-believers to the Lake of Fire and take believers into eternity with God.  No Rapture, no Tribulation, no Millennial Kingdom - just keep doing what we are doing until He comes. And then the judgment. They view the Great White Throne Judgment as including all believers and non-believers.  One general judgment - and then eternity, heaven or hell.

And PostMillennial believers say there will be a Tribulation and a Millennial Kingdom - but, no Rapture.  Christ will stay in heaven.  The church will stay on earth during the Tribulation and the Millennial Kingdom periods with Christ ruling from heaven. Then, at the end of the Millennium, He will return, pass judgement at the Great White Throne Judgment - and immediately send non-believers to the Lake of Fire and take believers into eternity with God.

The big problem is that neither of these beliefs is Biblical.  And, in the dialogue below I will be honest - for a while I have been having dialogues with my TimesDaily Forum Friend, Beter - and I have no idea whether he is an Amillennial believer, or just entrenched in a legalistic church, or just wants to argue.  Many times I have suspected the latter.  However, his questions and comments today lead to a good discussion of the End Times judgments  which I feel could be a catalyst in bringing others deeper into their own personal Bible study.

So I feel the dialogue below which we had on the TimesDaily Religion Forum is worthwhile.


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Hi Beter,

In my earlier post, I wrote, "At the end of the Millennial Kingdom - those who died not believing in Jesus Christ will be resurrected and will face Jesus Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment - a judgment of punishment for rejecting Him all their lives. They will then join the Antichrist and all other non-believers in the Lake of Fire, hell."

And, you tell me, "Bill, the judgment you call the 'Great White Throne Judgment' is the same as the judgment described in Matthew 25.  There, 'all nations' shall be judged (v.32).  The righteous and the unrighteous shall be judged (v. 46).  Jesus, in describing the judgment in Matthew 25, neither says, nor implies, anything remotely to suggest that this is anything other than THE judgment, the ONLY judgment.  According to your theology, the judgment of Matthew 25 could only be a 'post-Tribulation' judgment and the only persons being condemned in that judgment will be those who survived the Tribulation."

Matthew 25:31-46 is describing the Sheep and Goat Judgment.  When Jesus Christ returns, His Second Coming after the Tribulation, there will be those who survived the Tribulation. Although most who become believers during the Tribulation will have been martyred by the Antichrist - there will be a large number of believers still alive at the end of the Tribulation.  And there will be many non-believers, those who took the Mark of the Beast and continued to deny Christ.

His main purpose in the Second Coming is to put an end to the Tribulation, the time of refining for His chosen people, Israel - and to establish His Millennial Kingdom, the Kingdom of God on earth.  When Adam disobeyed God; he gave a "Quit Claim Deed" for earth to Satan.  Jesus will come to redeem the Title Deed to earth - and to send Satan into the abyss, his jail, for one thousand years.

At the judgment described in the parable of Matthew 25:31-46, there will be two things asked: First, what did you do with My Son, Jesus Christ?  Did you receive Him as your Lord and Savior - or did you reject Him?  Second, what did you do with your fellow man?  Did you display the fruit found only in the salvation of a Christ Follower and tend His sheep, the people for whom He gave His life - or did you care only for your own worldly pleasures and desires?

The first, those who received Him as Lord and Savior, His sheep, He will stand at His right hand.  Those who denied Him, the goats, He will stand at His left hand.  And, Matthew 25:46 tells us, "And these (the goats) will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous (His sheep) into eternal life."

But first, those on His right, His sheep, will go into the Millennial Kingdom of God, Christ's Millennial Reign on earth, in their mortal bodies.  For one thousand years they will be marrying and having children.  Yet they and their children will still have the sin nature inherited from Adam's disobedience.  The sin nature can and will only be removed through death or the Rapture.  All mortals going into the Millennial Kingdom will be saved, yet they will still have their sin nature - just at we believers today, before the Rapture, still have our sin nature.

Those who enter the Millennial Kingdom after the Tribulation are saved, they are Christian believers and have eternal life in Christ.  However, those born during the Millennial Kingdom still having their sin nature and will still need to invite Jesus Christ into their hearts
(Revelation 3:20) to have eternal life.

During the Millennial Kingdom, Satan is locked in the abyss - so his temptation which has led so many down the wrong path during the Church Era (from the Day of Pentecost to the Rapture) and even through the seven year Tribulation - will be missing.  However, even though the temptation of Satan is absent; those born during the Millennial Reign of Christ must still, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ - believe and receive His "free gift" of salvation.

Surprisingly, there will be a great number who will not, for whatever reason, apathy, etc., do this.  These are the recruits Satan will find when he is released from the abyss after one thousand years.  And from this group he will recruit his army of billions who will come against the Holy City and Jesus Christ (Revelation 20:7-10) where they will be supernaturally destroyed.  This is the last battle of the End Times.

The Great White Throne Judgment is still pending at this point.  It will happen after the Final Battle and after Satan has been thrown into the Lake of Fire where the Antichrist and his False Prophet await their leader.  The Great White Throne Judgment is God's final act in dealing with all non-believers.

From that point on -- it is the New Heaven, the New Earth, the New Jerusalem -- and eternal life with Jesus Christ, in the eternal presence of God the Father.

Then, you tell me, "Bill, your interpretation of the 'Rapture' is based on 1 Thess. 4. That passage teaches that both the righteous living and the 'dead in Christ' will be 'caught up together...in the clouds' and will 'ever be with the Lord.'"

That is almost true. We read in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18, "For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."

This tells us that those who died in Christ, i.e., those Christian believers who have preceded us in death -- their bodies are still in the grave, but, upon death, their spirits went directly to be with the Lord -- will be raised first in the Rapture. Then, those of us who are still alive will follow them in being Raptured. However, we are talking about a very brief time between the two events; say, like the time it takes for a blink of the eye. So, technically, those dead in Christ rise first -- but, in reality, it will all happen so quickly that who can notice the time difference?

Next, you ask a good question -- and, you have answered your own question, "Who does that leave behind for the 'Tribulation'? The only answer to that is that only the unrighteous will be left. That being the case, one has to wonder just who John was writing about in Revelation 7:14: 'And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.'"

As we are told in Jeremiah 30:7, the seven year Tribulation is the "Time of Jacob's Trouble or Distress." It is God's time to bring His chosen people, Israel, through the Refiner's Fire -- to separate out the remnant of His people who will believe and receive their Messiah, Jesus Christ. While the Tribulation is primarily for the sake of Israel; many Gentiles in the nations will also believe and receive His "free gift" of salvation.

Who is left after the Rapture? You answered correctly; only the unrighteous, only those who have not received and believed in Jesus Christ. However, there will be two great Revivals happening during the seven year Tribulation. First, there will be those who had knowledge of Jesus Christ, many who actually taught about Jesus Christ -- pastors, priest, Bible teachers, Sunday School teachers, deacons, deaconesses, elders, and many other supposedly mature Christians.

And, still, they never truly believed what they themselves were teaching. Yet, from what they have been teaching, they have knowledge of the Rapture, whether they believed it or not -- and when the Rapture does occur -- they will become instant believers. They will recognize the fallacy of the theology they have been following and teaching -- and, they will repent and become true Christ Followers. This will be the First Great Tribulation Revival.

The second will come from the 144,000 new Jewish Billy Grahams we find in Revelation 7:4, "And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel."

These 144,000 zealous evangelists, 12,000 from each of the Twelve Tribes of Israel -- will bring in a harvest of souls during the Tribulation unlike any that has ever occurred before this. We are told of this in Revelation 7:9, "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands."

This "great multitude" is comprised of those who were saved in the initial First Great Tribulation Revival and those who heard and responded to the teaching of the 144,000 Jewish Billy Grahams. And, can you imagine -- a great multitude, the number so large, that one could not count them? That, my Friend, is one great Soul Harvest.

But, the reason they are standing before the throne of the Lamb, clothed in white robes -- is because, as fast as the 144,000 evangelist could bring them to belief in Jesus Christ -- the Antichrist was killing them, making them Christian martyrs.

These are the same martyrs we find in Revelation 6:9-11, "When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, 'How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?' And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also."

Keep in mind that the book of Revelation does not read chronologically from time A to time Z. This is one of the reasons many folks get confused in studying Revelation. Yet, here, there is some continuity. First, in Revelation 6:9-11 we read of those slain, martyred, for their faith -- and then, in Revelation 7:9-17 we read of them standing before the Lord washed in the blood of the Lamb and clothed in His white robe of righteousness.

These were Left Behind -- but, now are saved and have eternal life in Jesus Christ.

Then, you tell me, "If only the unrighteous dead and the unrighteous living were left behind at the 'Rapture' (as you believe), and and if, as you say, 'At the end of the seven year Tribulation, Jesus Christ will return to earth, His Second Coming, where he will judge the nations, the survivors of the Tribulation: non-believers will go to the Lake of Fire, hell -- and believers will go into His Millennial Kingdom in their mortal bodies' -- then how did those allegedly unrighteousun-Raptured survivors of the 'Tribulation' somehow become righteous during the Tribulation?

Would they not, by your reckoning, have received a second chance? They were 'left behind' because they were unrighteous, and presumably in a lost state. Then, after the Tribulation, you assert that some of them were saved. But you also say: 'And, you are also correct that NO ONE gets a second chance. I have stated that so many times that I have lost count.'

Count this: One chance to be saved before the 'Rapture.' Another chance to be saved after the 'Tribulation.' I count two chances."

Once again, a good question which will help us clear up any misunderstandings. When we speak of "not having a second chance" to repent and receive His "free gift" of salvation -- this is referring only to this mortal life. In this life, one has until his last breath to repent and be saved. If, however, that person dies, breathes his last breath in this mortal life, without believing and receiving Jesus Christ as Lord, Master, and Savior -- there is no second chance. This person's eternal fate is sealed.

However, those who are Left Behind at the Rapture have not died, they have not breathed their last breath -- so, just as folks do now, they still have the rest of their mortal life to repent and be saved.

Yet, leaving repentance and salvation until the last moment, until just before that last breath -- is rather like trying to walk up an ice covered hillside wearing leather soled shoes. It is a mighty precarious position in which you could find yourself -- a mighty slippery slope. One never knows when that last breath will come.

That is true for us now. Can you imagine how much worse it will be during the seven year Tribulation -- when folks are being killed left and right -- for no other reason than it pleases the Antichrist? That will be a very precarious time in which to live -- and a very unwise time to put off your repentance and salvation until the last moment.

Beter, my Friend, I pray this clears up any misunderstandings we have about the End Times -- and that it encourages many of our Forum Friends to test what we write by comparing it with Scripture (Acts 17:11). And, I pray that our dialogues will be the catalyst which will bring many more to their own personal study of God's Word.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

The Passover/Resurrection Connection

Today, as we celebrate the Resurrection of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ -- I would like to share the HFT Connect eNewsletter below from David Hocking's Bible Teaching Ministry -- HOPE FOR TODAY. David is one of the more knowledgeable of our Protestant leaders on End Time Events (Eschatology) and the Jewish religion and culture; and how the two are intertwined.

God told Abraham, and through him, us:

Genesis 12:1-2, Now the LORD said to Abram, 'Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; and I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing;'"

That nation toward which God was leading Abraham and his descendants -- is the nation of Israel. And, although it is small, Israel, with the grace of God, is a powerful nation. The miracles which have occurred in their march to independence and sovereignty since 1948 can only be attributed to the hand of God.

Americans and our leaders would be well advised to pay heed to God promise in Genesis 12:3, "And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."

That blessing for "all the families of the earth" is our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ -- the promised Messiah.

Let us pray that our current national leaders will stop working so hard to bless the oil producing Arab nations -- and remember that Israel is the land promised to Abraham and his descendants, the Israelis, by God Himself. And, God has made it abundantly clear that if we, America, curse Israel -- He will curse us.

Many years ago, in our Fil-Am Church of Irvine, we had guests from Jews For Jesus, a Messianic Christian organization, come to our service and explain the Seder to us and how we, as Christian believers, can relate this Jewish celebration to our celebration of the Resurrection of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Today, on this blessed Resurrection Day, it is good for us to look at how our Jewish friends celebrate their Passover and the relationship between the two. These two web sites will give you a better understanding of that relationship:

The Messianic Israel Alliance:
http://www.messianicisrael.com/news/teachings/passover-and-the-resurrection.html?Itemid=39

Have You Met The Jewish Jesus:
http://www.jewishjesus.org/Article5.html

My Friend, God will bless us as we bless His people, Israel. Please feel free to share this with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing and telling folks that our Savior Lives!

I pray that you and your family have enjoyed a glorious Easter -- as we recall the Resurrection of our Lord.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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BLESSED RESURRECTION DAY!
DAVID HOCKING, HOPE FOR TODAY
HFT Connect, April 4, 2010
http://www.davidhocking.org

Today (all over the world) Christians meet to celebrate the resurrection of our Lord Yeshua! Praise God - He is alive and coming again! Last Monday, March 29, was Nisan 14 on the Jewish calendar -the day of Passover. According to Leviticus 23, the Sunday after the week in which Passover begins is the Jewish festival of FIRSTFRUITS which I Corinthians 15 teaches is the celebration of the Messiah's resurrection!

Tonight, David & Carole will be celebrating the Passover with friends and the family of Shuvah Yisrael Messianic Congregation in Irvine, California, where our good friend, Larry Feldman, is the congregational leader and Bible teacher. Hundreds will gather this evening at the Hyatt Regency in Irvine to celebrate this wonderful event!

Here is a brief outline of a Messianic Passover taken from the following passages: Exodus 12:1-20; Leviticus 23:4-8; Deuteronomy 16:1-8

The word "Haggadah" is Hebrew for "story" or "narrative" or "showing forth." Add the meal, and it is called the "Seder" which means "order."

Here are the items on the Seder plate:

Karpas - parsley - used for "dipping." It reminds us of the arrival of spring when new growth begins. The Passover marks the end of slavery, but the beginning of a new of freedom, both physically and spiritually.

Zeroa - shank bone of a lamb - reminds us of the central theme of sacrifice in the celebration of the Passover.

Moror - bitter herbs - reminds us of the bitterness of slavery under the Egyptians, but also of the bitterness of life without true freedom and redemption.

Charoset - sweet mixture of nuts, apples, and wine - reminds us of the mortar used in building in Egypt - the sweet taste reminds us of God's kindness which makes slavery easier to bear.

Chazeret - horseradish - used for the second "dipping"

Betazag - roasted egg - symbol of a "Festival Offering" offered in the temple on each of the three required festivals to attend - Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles. Also called the "Chaggigah" - also a symbol of mourning over the loss of the two temples.

THE FOUR CUPS OF WINE - Exodus 6:6-7

1. The Cup of Sanctification (Thanksgiving) - "I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians"

2. The Cup of Judgment (Plagues) - "I will rid you out of their bondage"

3. The Cup of Redemption (Blessing) - "I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments"

4. The Cup of Praise - "I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God; and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians."

The meal begins with the "Brechat HaNer" - the blessing of the candles - the lady of the house lights them - reminds us that the Messiah was the Seed of the woman to bring light to the world.

1. The Kiddush - the first cup of sanctification and thanksgiving - everyone drinks of it.

2. The Urchatz - the washing of the hands - probably the place where our Lord washed the disciples' feet - John 13:1-17

3. The Karpas - parsley dipped in small bowl of salt water (represents the tears shed in Egypt and the Red Sea - both of which are salty - everyone eats the parsley dipped in salt water.)

4. The Yachutz - breaking of the middle matzah - symbolizing our Lord's death - being broken for us - matzah is "pierced" and "striped" and "unleavened" - hidden (His burial) and later to appear (resurrection) - afikomen - "dessert"

5. The Maggid - "telling of the story of the Exodus"

6. The Four Questions:
* Why is this night different from all other nights when we can eat regular bread, but on this night - only unleavened bread?
* Why do we eat only bitter herbs?
* Why do we dip two times?
* Why do we recline while we eat?

7. The Makot (slayings) - the cup of plagues. The use of the finger reminds us of the "finger of God" mentioned in Exodus 8:15

8. Zeroa (shank bone) - reminds us that our Messiah is the Lamb of God!

9. Sulchan Orech (dinner is served)

10. Afikomen (Breaking of Bread - after dinner)

11. The third cup - the Cup of Redemption

12. The Cup of Elijah filled & the door opened

13. The fourth cup - The Cup of Praise

And...Jews around the world will say: "NEXT YEAR IN JERUSALEM!"

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NEWS REPORTS:

FORMER OBAMA AIDE NEW HEAD OF AIPAC
by Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu (Arutz Sheva News):

Lee "Rosy" Rosenberg, a jazz recording industry veteran capitalist who accompanied U.S. President Barack Obama on his campaign trip to Israel two years ago, takes over on Sunday as the new President of American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Rosenberg also served on the President's national campaign finance committee.

The new AIPAC President hails from Chicago, the home state of President Obama, and also is on first-name terms with White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod, President Obama's senior advisor.

Steve Rosen, a former 23-year, high-ranking AIPAC official, told the Chicago Tribune, "I don't think AIPAC has made any secret of the reality that his friendship with the President played a role in Rosy's rise. He's a guy who works very hard at fundraising and in the political arena. It was not as if he was plucked out of nowhere. He paid his dues. But I'm sure nobody was blind to the fact that he's from Chicago."

Rosenberg is known as an expert in bringing in big money from powerful people who generally are not outwardly committed to Israel.

AIPAC claims more than 100,000 members and is considered the most powerful Jewish lobby in Washington. It held its annual three-day conference this past week and heard addresses from Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Their relationship has been sorely tested recently because of American and Arab opposition to Israel's building for Jews in long-established Jewish neighborhoods in parts of Jerusalem that were resorted to Israel in the Six-Day War in 1967.

"The fact that he and the president have had a relationship helps now," Illinois Democrat Rep. Mike Quigley told the Tribune.

Rosenberg's ventures have included real estate, a music recording company, and high-tech startups and investing in jazz documentaries.

He replaces Michigan-based David Victor, who recently signed an AIPAC letter asking Congress to "demand" that the Obama administration "enforce existing sanctions law and impose crippling new sanctions on Iran."

ISRAEL SEES DRAMATIC CHANGE IN US RELATIONS IN NEAR FUTURE
(Israel Today News)

While Israeli leaders try to downplay the current tension with the US, unnamed officials in Jerusalem acknowledge that Israel's relationship with America is likely to change dramatically for the worse over the course of President Barack Obama's term in office.

In remarks carried by Ha'aretz, Israeli government sources said the recent behavior of Obama and other high-ranking US officials toward Israel points to an imposed peace settlement with the Palestinians and wider Arab world over the next two years.

The sources noted that one of the US demands of Israel to make up for the recent perceived insult of continued Jewish building in Jerusalem was that all final status issues be on the table in upcoming US-brokered indirect peace talks.

If Israel agrees to that demand, it would mean giving the Obama Administration much more influence over the peace terms Israel would have to accept regarding issues such as control of Jerusalem, final borders and the return of so-called "Palestinian refugees."

Israeli officials again warned that Obama's behavior is hardening Palestinian positions and putting genuine peace even further out of reach. They also cautioned that Israeli public trust in America would further wane.

David Hocking
Hope For Today
http://www.davidhocking.org