Because You Disagree, Are They Really False Teachers?

WOW, THE VIDEO BELOW DID NOT GO WHERE I WAS EXPECTING! ~ And I am happy that it did not. If you have read any of my recent blogs, you will know that I suggest that every believer should make it a goal to be able to put your own personal Statement of Faith in writing and test that against Scripture.

Paul's admonition in Acts 17:11 applies whether you are hearing a message, being led in a Bible study, or doing your own personal study. Test that message or study against Scripture. It can only strengthen your faith, to be able to articulate clearly and effectively what you believe and why you hold those beliefs.

That Statement of Christian Faith should include the Essential Doctrines which define us as Christian or non-Christian?

1. The Bible:  Is the Holy Spirit inspired Written Word of God

2. The Deity of Jesus Christ:  God Incarnate - fully man; yet, fully God.

3. The Trinity:  God eternally existing; manifested (revealed) in three persons: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

4. Salvation by Grace:  By grace you are saved, through faith in Jesus Christ – plus nothing else.

5. The Resurrection of Christ:  He rose from the dead, that we may also be resurrected.

6. The Gospel:  The birth, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ according to Scripture.

7. Heaven and Hell:  Both are real places and are the only two eternal destinations available to all mankind.

These are the Biblical doctrines which we, as Christians, cannot compromise. Although there are other important doctrines, these seven are declared by Scripture and are essential.

There are many Non-Essential Doctrines such as Eschatology (including the Rapture, the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, etc.) - Purpose, Method, and Timing of Baptism - Communion (Close, Closed, or Open?) How Often - Sabbath or Sunday - Calvinism, Arminianism, or We In The Middle - OSAS, i.e., Once Saved, Always Saved - etc.

These and many other doctrines are interesting to discuss and add to our maturity in God's Word - but they do not affect our eternal salvation.

I have many pastor friends - and I will admit that with many of them I will disagree on one or more of the Non-Essential Doctrines. But that does not mean that I do not value their knowledge, teaching, and Christian brotherhood - as long as they believe and teach the Essential Christian Doctrines.

And that is what Allen Parr is telling us in this video - that because we disagree with some pastors and Bible teachers on Non-Essential Doctrines, that we should be trashing them and telling folks to avoid them. That would be wrong.

That is a major value which comes from putting your own Statement of Faith in writing. When you know your own Biblical beliefs and have them solidified in your heart and mind, and a pastor or teacher shares a belief that you do not agree with, you can just skip over that and be edified by the other 98% of his teachings.

As long as he teaches the Essential Christian Doctrines, you can know that it is okay to listen, with discernment, to his teachings and learn from him.

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Are The Bible Project, Andy Stanley, Francis Chan, John Piper and Steven Furtick False Teachers?
THE BEAT by Allen Parr - May 21, 2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbKc5K_tz2A

Are Tim Mackie, Andy Stanley, Francis Chan, John Piper and Steven Furtick all false teachers? Each of these men have been categorized as false teachers at one point for what they teach and believe. In this video we will explore the various beliefs of these 5 men AND a bonus #6 mystery man to be revealed later in the video.

What is a false teacher and how do we define one? If you want to know how to discern a false teacher then PLEASE watch this entire video so you'll be clear on what a false teacher is and how to discern them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbKc5K_tz2A

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I pray that you will find this video edifying. Personally I have been watching and sharing Allen Parr's videos for a while now - and I have not yet found anywhere that my Christian beliefs differ from what he is sharing.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Do You Want To Lead A Small Group Bible Study?

BECAUSE I WAS SAVED IN A BIBLE STUDY IN 1987, I am a strong supporter of Bible studies.  If I were looking for a new home church and found one that really seemed to be a great fellowship - but they did not have a weekly Bible study, I would continue to look.  And not just a Bible study, but one that I know will be productive.

You ask, "Bill, what makes a 'productive' Bible study?  Isn't a Bible study just a Bible study?"  Glad you asked! 

1. It should be a FAMILY Bible Study:

"Okay, Bill, what is so important about Family Bible Studies?"   Maybe you missed the key word:  FAMILY.    In a Family Bible Study, we gather as a family - as a fellowship family and as a biological family. 

That includes everyone from the toddler, the pre-schooler, and all the way up to the Youth and College age young people - gathering with mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, auntie and uncle, and with all their friends in Christian fellowship, love, and to study and discuss God's Word.

"But, Bill, the little ones will be a distraction!"    So?  The few distractions are far outweighed by the positive results.  Consider this - the toddlers and the young pre-schoolers will not understand our discussions.  But they DO understand the Christian love they see being shared. 

The grade school and middle school age children can be included in the reading of Scripture as we each take turns reading verses from the study for that night.  And as they grow a little older, they can actually join in during the discussion of those verses.  I have seen this happen with wonderful results -  with toddlers, with youth, and with young adults.

2. It should be a DISCUSSION style Bible Study:

There are three kinds of Bible study:

1. First is the "sermon" Bible study.  Which is not really a Bible Study - but a Friday night, or midweek, sermon.  Sermon Bible studies may be exciting for the pastor / teacher - but is the least productive in creating mature disciples in the fellowship and, are very poor in encouraging retention of materials presented in the sermons.

2. Second is the "prewritten study guide" type of Bible Study which limits the study to simple "one size fits all" questions and levels of study.  Not conducive to productive discussions - nor to retention of the study material.

3. The third is the "expositional discussion or conversational" type of Bible Study and is the one I prefer and highly recommend, the only kind I will lead.  This type of study gets the people involved, rather than them just sitting as an audience.  Involvement is far more effective and results in much higher retention of the discussed material, than just sitting and listening.

That, in a nut shell, is the message of the two short "Leading A Small Group Study" videos below.  The first from a senior pastor addressing a typical fellowship, folks of all ages.  The second is a youth leader addressing his peers.

Side Note:  It is best to have a FRIDAY EVENING Bible study:  On Friday evening, most people do not work on Saturday, so folks can relax, enjoy fellowship, maybe have a light snack (unless the group is Filipino, then the snack is not so light) - and have plenty of time for a good Discussion Style Family Bible Study.  

I am reminded of a 1990 Bible study in the Orange County home of Christian brethren, Richard & Zina Tendroch.  Richard and I, both Caucasians married to Filipinas, were getting to better know one another when he told me, "Bill, before I was saved, I used to spend all my Friday nights in bars.  Now I spend them in Bible study - and I have a lot more fun."  All I could was AMEN!  For my story was the same.

In the first video, the senior pastor suggests ways the person leading a Small Group Bible study - especially a new study, possibly one in which participants may have come from a sermon or study guide type of study environment - can help everyone relax and get involved in the upcoming discussion.

The key point I got from this video was:  A person can tell if you are truly listening to what he/she has to say - or if you are merely looking at them, i.e., faking attention, but thinking about what you are going to say in response. That is a sure conversation killer.  If you truly listen, you will not have to worry about your response.

In the second video, the youth group leader shares three very important points for leading a small group discussion.  All three points truly resonate with me - for I have "been there, done that" in each scenario.   He tells us:

1. Facilitate, don't dominate.  The best way to kill a good discussion Bible study - is for the leader to talk too much.  The youth leader's first point:   to facilitate, meaning to assist the progress of, keep it moving, and I will add - toward a common goal, that of a productive Bible study.

In the first video the senior pastor mentions having a study where after several hours, you realize that there has been no Bible study done.  About 8-10 years ago, a group I had been involved with several years earlier wanted me to host a men's Bible study.  That was timely, for I had a neighbor, Greg, whose wife was Roman Catholic and he was sort of indifferent.  I had been talking with for a long time - and this would be a great way to get him into a Bible study.

The group came to my home and because there were several new men, the leader suggested we all introduce ourselves.  Okay, sounds like a good ice breaker.  Except the introductions went on and on, with no control.  My neighbor, Greg, kept saying, "You guys know the Bible better than me" (hint, hint) - when after an hour our group had not yet opened a Bible. 

Finally I picked up my Bible and said, "Why don't we take time to read from John" and the leader told me, "We won't have time today."  And that was the end of that Bible study.  After they all left, Greg told me, "Bill, I like having discussions with you.  But don't invite me to a Bible study again."  Needless to say, I was not a happy camper! 

My point, as mentioned in both these videos:  The leader can allow ice breakers and/or tangents - but he needs to know when to bring the discussion back into focus.  And our focus should have been to study the Bible.  We did not and I lost the opportunity with my neighbor for he soon moved away.

2. Let there be silence.  One of the hardest things to do in a discussion - is to accept silence.  I am taken back to circa 1981 when I was regional sales manager for Genisco in Orange County.  My background before going into sales was 12 years as a computer tech / field engineer, so I was comfortable in the technical side of sales. 

At Genisco we had a very talented computer tech, Larry, who reminded me of myself.  So when he asked for an opportunity to go into sales, I told our VP Sales to put him into my group so that I could guide his transition.

A group from Nellis AFB in Nevada came to Genisco to discuss a rather large contract.  This was Larry's account, so I was leading a chalk board presentation and Larry was in the meeting.  During the presentation, there were times when the group was silent - and that seemed to make Larry nervous, so he would pop in with a technical point which was relevant, but not necessary at that specific time.  After he did this several times, I found a reason for the two of us to step out of the meeting for a short time.

In the hallway, I shared with Larry that their silence was good and we should allow them silent time to think about features we had just discussed - and how those features would apply to the needs of their application.  Like this young Bible study group leader tells us "Let There Be Silence" for at time, Silence Is Golden.  The key is to know when to break the silence and continue.  That knowledge comes with experience and time.

Larry listened, as I knew he would - and all went well.  The contract was concluded successfully.  And that was the whole purpose of our group discussion, whether it be for computer products or sharing the Gospel - give them time to think and absorb. Then bring it back down to earth and close the sale.

3. And his third suggestion, Tangents Are Okay!  Amen to that, for allowing the folks in the group to study and think about what "they" think that Scripture verse or passage means adds breadth to our understanding of what the original writer, so many eons before, really meant as he was led by the Holy Spirit in the initial writing. 

As both the senior pastor and this youth leader tell us:  encourage tangents which will broaden the discussion - but the leader has to know when to bring the discussion back into focus on the main idea of the verse or passage being discussed.

Once more, a personal experience.  My wife, Dory, and I moved to Riverside County, California, about 25 years ago - and we became active in the Fil-Am Church of Corona (now CICF, Corona International Christian Fellowship).  From the beginning we had good discussion style Bible studies, and as our fellowship began to grow, we began to have Sunday School Classes. 

Fortunately we decided to have the Sunday School after the worship service and fellowship time.  That way we were not limited to just 45 minutes as happens when the Sunday School is before the worship service.

After our worship service, being primarily a Filipino fellowship we had time for good food fellowship as well as, "How's the family this week, George?" fellowship.  Then warm from good food and warm Christian fellowship - we had a big gathering in our Sunday School Class - where the Scripture reading quickly turned into healthy discussions. 

Sometimes, when our discussions were lively, we went on for one or two hours.  But the leader knew when to bring the discussion back down to earth.  Our CICF Sunday School Classes were better Bible Studies - than most Bible studies.
 
In the URL links below, the first is the playlist sharing the two "Leading A Small Group Study" videos.  Much as we have discussed above.

The second URL is a playlist consisting of five short videos I have developed over the years to help me lead Bible studies and Sunday School Classes.  They are done in a fashion which allows the leader to pause on each frame, as needed, for discussion. 

The first three videos address the issue of why we should have a Personal Statement of Faith in writing - and why our church fellowship should have a Corporate Statement of Faith in writing.  And I would be surprised if the two do not align.  That way if a friend asks you what your church fellowship believes and teaches, you will have an answer.

Does your church believe in a literal reading of the Bible?  Does it believe in the Trinity and Eternal Security of all believers?  You might be surprised if you have not seen your church's Statement of Faith in writing.  I was in a new church plant years ago and could not get the pastor to answer a simple question:  I knew it was Southern Baptist, but when I asked if it was Calvinist - I never got an answer.  I suspect it was, but not overtly in their teaching.

Your church fellowship leaders should never hesitate to give you a copy of their Corporate Statement of Faith.

Have you put your own personal Statement of Faith down in writing so that you have a deeper grasp for what you personally believe - and your church fellowship should have their SOF in writing so that each member of the church fellowship has access to it - for that is what your church believes and teaches.

The next two short videos discuss Essential Christian Doctrines, those which directly affect your eternal salvation - and the Non-Essential Christian Doctrines, those which do not directly affect your salvation, but as a Christian believer they are important to you. 

Can you name the Essential Christian Doctrines?  And can you list Non-Essential Doctrines which, as a believer, you should be able to discuss with those to whom you are witnessing.  For most likely, they will ask about those teachings also.

As I said, these videos were intended to be point by point discussions which can proceed at the speed of the group.  There are a few frames where the leader may want to pause and just let you read it for yourself.  Those frames are not discussion starters, but can be effective in bringing about a discussion.

And there are two End Times videos.  You will recognize them when you see Linus sharing Charley Brown's thoughts on the Rapture.  And the next is introduced by then no longer needed Rapture Hat.

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TWO "LEADING A SMALL GROUP BIBLE STUDY" VIDEOS - 2022
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_YT3RttutrjVtGNqEmftMuHdqSDZLh0t

FIVE "SMALL GROUP BIBLE STUDY" VIDEOS - 2022
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_YT3Rttutrh_xm8_8mwdZHjvzQMwVXp9

 

I pray that these two video playlists will be helpful to you, both in your own personal Bible studies, and when you decide to step out in faith and become a a Small Group Bible Study Leader.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill 

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Are You Familiar With The Oneness Pentecostal Theology?

Are You Familiar With The Oneness Pentecostal Theology  ~  Which teaches that we should pray "only" in the name of Jesus Christ, NEVER in the name of the Father and the Holy Spirit - because Jesus Christ is not the Son, He is God Alone?  Thus their teaching of Jesus Only, totally denies the Trinity.  So let's follow the bouncing yellow ball and see if we can disprove that teaching.

First let me say that we are not talking about all Pentecostals for there is another side of the Pentecostal house which is Trinitarian and acknowledges the Triune God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.  I am addressing the Left side of the Pentecostal house which has taken a totally different path, a path leading away from the Truth.  So let's begin our journey down the Oneness Yellow Brick Road and see if we can find Dorothy and Toto.

But before we get into the dialogue below, let's talk TRINITY!  One problem those who oppose the idea of a Trinity have - is that they are relating to the word God as a personal name.  God is not a personal name, it is a title.  Whether we call it God or the Godhead, that is the title of that entity.  The three Persons within the Godhead all have personal names:  God the Father, God the Son or Jesus Christ, God the Holy Spirit.  Those are personal names of the the three Persons within the Godhead.  That is the Trinity or Triune God.

"In English and in Hebrew, the word 'God' (or El, or Elohim) is not a name, but a generic title for a deity that could be applied to other, lesser, spiritual beings. .   .   . There were many such beings who were lesser than the one true God because they were created, not the Creator" (God Has a Name.. Many, Actually! .  .  . by BibleProject Logo Tim Mackie)

My Oneness Pentecostal Friend shared a challenge of "Acts 2:38, Acts 19:1-7, Ephesians 2:8" on Facebook recently which I have to assume was his way of initiating a discussion.  Yet I get confused when he becomes upset and deletes responses which challenge his Oneness theology.  I have been deleted several times, as have Friends who commented on my response, for I totally disagree with their teaching of Jesus Only, their teaching of Baptismal Regeneration, and their flavor, almost Arminian, of Salvation Lost.

Let's take a look at his "Acts 2:38, Acts 19:1-7, Ephesians 2:8" challenge and see if we can make reliable Trinitarian sense of it:

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HE POSTS:  "Paul never meant Ephesians 2:8 to be used against water baptism in Jesus' name, as Paul was in full support of the Plan of Salvation found in Acts 2:38."

MY RESPONSE:  Let's first look at Acts 2:38 in context.  Jesus had been crucified and after 3 days, He had risen from the grave.  He appeared to His apostles and to over 500 believers, and then instructed His apostles to wait in the Upper Room in Jerusalem until the Father's promise was fulfilled. Then Jesus ascended into heaven. The apostles gathered with other believers,120 in total, in the Upper Room, waiting and praying for 40 days.

What was the "promise from God the Father" they were waiting to receive all that time?   Back in Acts 1:4:5 Jesus reminds them that John the Baptist, the last OT prophet, only baptized them with water - as was the Jewish practice in the Old Testament.  Jews practiced baptism, or cleansing, as a traditional act of purification (not salvation).  And for the initiation of converts to Judaism long before the coming of the Messiah - but never for salvation. 

The origins of baptism / cleansing might be found as far back as the book of Leviticus - the Jewish act of purification before bringing sacrifices to the altar.  So John the Baptist was baptizing folks in water as an act of repentance and cleansing, not salvation - as was done in Judaism.  But John also was preparing them for the Messiah who would bring a new and deeper meaning to "baptism."

In Luke 3:3-4, John the Baptist, the last of the Old Testament prophets, came preaching baptism / cleansing under the OT Law, "And he went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, saying: 'The voice of one crying in the wilderness: "Prepare the way of the LORD; .  .  . "  Notice once again, repentance of sins, not salvation.

In Acts 1, before His ascension, Jesus was speaking of the coming "Baptism of the Holy Spirit," i.e., the sealing or indwelling, of the Holy Spirit which was, and is, God's promise to all believers since we are all under Grace, not Law.

Indwelling of the Holy Spirit did occur occasionally in the Old Testament, but not for salvation and not for all OT saints and in some cases, not permanently.

Numbers 27:18, "And the LORD said to Moses: 'Take Joshua the son of Nun with you, a man in whom is the Spirit, and lay your hand on him;' "

Judges 3:9-10, "When the children of Israel cried out to the LORD, the LORD raised up a deliverer for the children of Israel, who delivered them: Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother. The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, and he judged Israel. He went out to war, and the LORD delivered Cushan-Rishathaim king of Mesopotamia into his hand; and his hand prevailed over Cushan-Rishathaim."

Compare those OT occurrences with this NT occurrence.  In the OT, rare, never for salvation, and no promise of permanence.  In the NT, indwelling only occurs during salvation, occurs in all believers, and is permanent until death or rapture.

John 14:16-17, "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever - the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you."

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HE POSTS:  Acts 2:38, "Then Peter said to them, 'Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.' "

MY RESPONSE:  As usual, my Oneness Friend just plopped down a Scripture verse, with absolutely no indication that he knows what it means.  He wants us to assume he knows the meaning.  Then when we answer he can boldly say, "Yeah, that is what I meant to write."  DUH! 

So let's help my Oneness Friend understand what he has copy/pasted.  What was on the minds of the million or so folks who had come to Jerusalem on this fateful Passover, many of whom were still in town?  They had come to celebrate the Passover and found themselves witnesses to one of the most important events in the history of mankind - the crucifixion of the man, Jesus Christ, who told them He is the Son of God.  So in effect they had witness the murder of God, in a sense.  That is not an everyday event in the lives of believers or non-believers.  That had to have made a deep impression on the minds of everyone.

The apostle Peter, wanting to reach as many as possible with the Gospel message - connected the witnessing of this major historical event together with his teaching of the Gospel.  In Acts 2:14-36 Peter is sharing the Gospel with the multitude which had gathered when they heard the noise of the Holy Spirit coming upon the 120 in the Upper Room.

Acts 2:1-3, "When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.  And suddenly a noise like a violent rushing wind came from heaven, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.  And tongues that looked like fire appeared to them, distributing themselves, and a tongue rested on each one of them."

Many felt convicted in their hearts by this truth and in Acts 2:36-37 as Peter continued, "Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ - this Jesus whom you crucified."  Now when the people in the street heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what are we to do?"

In Acts 2:38 Peter points them toward Jesus Christ, "Peter said to them, 'Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.' "

What did we read about John the Baptist, the last of the OT prophets?  In Luke 3:3-4, John the Baptist, came preaching baptism / cleansing under the OT Law, "And he went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet,

When you want a teaching to ring true in the minds of the people - if you can tie that teaching with an event already strongly on their minds - that is half the battle.  These are OT people who most likely are familiar with John the Baptist, for he was not the type to be forgotten too easily.  And the event of the crucifixion was on everyone's minds.  Tie those two together and you have a winner!

John the Baptist preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Peter preaching, 'Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;

Peter cleverly tied the two things strongest on their minds together -  (1) John the Baptist's OT repentance for the remission of sins and (2) the name of Jesus Christ, so recently crucified.  How could Peter not win? 

And that day 5000 men and an untold number of women and children became believers, part of the Day of Pentecost 33 AD church - which went from 120 to most likely well over 6000 in a matter of hours. 

And later that week, another 4000 men and some number of women and children joined them in the Day of Pentecost 33 AD church.  When have you seen a church, any church, go from 120 at startup - to over 10,000 in less than a week?

Peter's and the apostles sales technique would be the envy of every company in the world.  But of course they had the greatest product in the world to sell - the Gospel of Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

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HE POSTS:   In Ephesians 2:8 Paul never speaks against acts of obedience, such as (1) Belief in the Lord, (2) Repentance of sin, and (3) Water Baptism in Jesus' name.  The "works" mentioned by Paul, are in reference to additional good works, which should come natural to Christians.

MY RESPONSE:  I have no problem with either of those, assuming you mean: (1) Belief in the Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God,  (2) Repentance of sin leading to forgiveness of sin, not meaning salvation.  Christ died on the cross to pay "in full" the sin debt for all people, past, present, and future.  But that gift is null and void unless activated before we breathe our last breath in this mortal body.  After that, all bets are off - no second chance. 

When a person does believes and receives Christ as his Lord and Savior (John1:12) all his/her sins are forgiven, ALL - and (3) Water Baptism in Jesus' name - or in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - for when we pray in Jesus' name, all three are included since He is one person in the Trinity.

The second part of his posts reads:  The "works" mentioned by Paul, are in reference to additional good works, which should come natural to Christians.

While I agree that our good works post-salvation should be a part of every believers life, in Ephesians 2:9 I believe Paul is speaking of works done in an attempt to "earn" salvation, i.e., works based salvation.  And in that sense, I agree with the apostle Paul completely, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, not a result of works."  That would be a works based salvation which is not going to happen.

The Bema Seat or Believers' Judgment is a rewards based judgment completely.  Our eternal life has already been established or we would not be at the Believers' Judgment.  This is a judgment of the rewards or lack of rewards we will receive in our eternal home.

Ephesians 2:8-10, "For by grace you have been saved through faith (in Jesus Christ, Son of God); and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God (the Father);  (9) not a result of works, so that no one may boast.  (10) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus (the Son) for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."

Actually our salvation was established in Ephesians 1:

Ephesians 1:13. "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of Truth, the Gospel of your salvation - having also believed, you were sealed (indwelled) in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise,"

And we have His promise that our salvation cannot be lost, stated in Ephesians 4:

Ephesians 4:30, "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."  The day of redemption is the day we die in this mortal body - or are Raptured out of it.  Until then we are sealed and safe in the Holy Spirit.

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HE POSTS:   The Ephesians were doing good works, in the hopes of attaining a greater salvation. This is what Paul speaks against.  This is proven in (Acts 19:1-7) when Paul commands the believers to be re-baptized, this time in the name of Jesus Christ.  Only those who promote false doctrine, will disagree.

MY RESPONSE:  We need to break this into two parts, for they are tackling different issues.

1. You wrote:  The Ephesians were doing good works, in the hopes of attaining a greater salvation.

1. Response:  I disagree, for when Paul writes "not as a result of works" he was looking back at verse 8 which is addressing the issue of eternal salvation, i.e., "by grace you have been saved through faith (in Jesus Christ, Son of God);"   This was not an issue of greater or lesser rewards, but of salvation, i.e., works salvation.   Which is a no-no.

2. You wrote:   This is proven in (Acts 19:1-7) when Paul commands the believers to be re-baptized, this time in the name of Jesus Christ. Only those who promote false doctrine, will disagree.

2. Response:  First let's look at Acts 19:1-7 to see if we can identify the confusion problem:

Acts 19:1-3, "Now it happened that while Apollos was in Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. (2) He said to them, 'Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?'  And they said to him, 'On the contrary, we have not even heard if there is a Holy Spirit.'  (3) And he said, 'Into what then were you baptized?' And they said, 'Into John's baptism.' "

Acts 19:4-7, "Paul said, 'John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.'  (5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (6) And when Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them (indwelled them) and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.  (7) There were about twelve men in all."

Two facts seem obvious (1) these men were disciples of John the Baptist, still preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins - and not salvation, i.e., "John baptized with a baptism of repentance (not salvation), telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."   In other words, John the Baptist baptized them into repentance - but for salvation he pointed them toward Jesus Christ, who was soon to come.

That is why they had to be baptized again - and to avoid confusion Paul told them to be baptized in the name of the one who is their salvation, Jesus Christ.  Keep in mind that this is all new to these twelve men, so Paul took the most certain avenue and baptized them in the name they had come to know, through John the Baptist and now through Paul, the name of Jesus.  Introducing a new set of names at that time might confuse them.  So Paul saved the Trinity for later, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - and baptized them in the name of Jesus Christ.  As a career salesman, that makes perfect sense to me.

To my Oneness Pentecostal Friend, I have made every effort to address your points and answer them from Scripture.  If there is an area where you disagree, or are confused - I would love to see your response, supported by Scripture the same as I have done for you.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill 

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Did I Meet An Angel?

A Oneness Pentecostal Friend Posted On Facebook: "My opinion is based on observation.  I know what the Bible says. I know what the Baptist angle is.  In my opinion it is incorrect."

And I responded, "Then why is your theology so far off-track - on so many doctrines?"  And then asked him, "I am curious.  What is the 'Baptist Angle?'  I know a few Baptists who may have seen angels - but none with an angle!"

As a matter of fact, there is a possibility that I met an angel about 15 years ago, as I was out for a walk late one evening.

In 2006, about 11:00 pm I went for a walk.  And walking along Magnolia Avenue, a busy boulevard in Riverside, California - suddenly a man who appeared to be homeless and about forty years old, jumped from behind a sign and started screaming and cursing me.

I backed away from him into and across the busy street.  He followed me, screaming and cursing.  At one time, he said, "Damn it, give me ten dollars."  I told him, "I don't have any money on me" - which was true, for I never carry a wallet or any valuables when I walk.

Soon I was on the island between east-bound and west-bound Magnolia, a wide landscaped area.  The moment I stepped on the island, I felt a sudden peace come over me.   For a moment I just stood there.

Then I approached the man and told him, "I don't have any money.  But I want to be your friend."  I could see his face change slightly, I could see just a bit of the anger leave.  I walked up to him, put my right hand on his left shoulder, and told him, "I want to be your friend. I love you, God loves you. Can I pray for you?"  And he said, "Yes."

I held his shoulder and prayed that God would touch this man and provide for his needs.  I prayed for God to show His love to this man.  Then I hugged him.  He hugged me back, so tightly, and said in a small, soft voice, "This is what I really want."  Then he walked calmly away.

Was God giving me a message?  I don't know for sure, but I do know that God was on that highway island with me as I prayed for that homeless man.

Later as I was sharing this with my wife, Dory, I recalled that I had forgotten one very key observation.  I never really thought about it as I was talking and praying with this man.  I never really thought about it afterwards - until I was walking home and thinking about what God had done with me, and through me, that evening.

One of the first things most people, including myself, would think of when considering hugging a homeless person is - he will have an odor.

As I thought about it later, I realized that this man had no odor whatsoever.  He was as fresh as a baby coming out of a bath.  He had no odor, his clothing had no odor - yet he was obviously homeless and living on the streets.  How was this possible?

Matthew 19:26 (nasb), "And looking at them Jesus said to them, 'With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.' ”

Was this man a Messenger from God?  Was God telling me, as He did Peter in Acts 10:15, "What God has cleansed, . . ."

You can see why I felt somewhat shaken after this was over - so I decided to just go back home instead of finishing my walk.  Yet I also felt exhilarated because I know that God had touched that man through me.

Hebrews 13:2 (nasb) tells us, "Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it."

Was this my angel?   Many will laugh and say that I need a psychiatrist - but believers will say, "Amen!"

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill 

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Oneness Pentecostalism, The Trinity, And The Church Explained!

Recently A Friend Began Flooding Facebook With A Campaign Of False Teaching, "The Oneness Pentecostal Movement."

For the past few weeks I have refuted his bold posts and declarations.  But now I think it is time bring in the Christian A -Team who can better explain and expose those teachings which stray from true Christian Biblical teaching.  To do so, I have chosen two video playlists from my YouTube Channel.  Each is two short videos which better explain the Biblical Trinity, the Oneness Pentecostal false teaching, and how we can understand the difference.

The first playlist is two short videos from the Allen Parr Ministries.  In 2004, Allen Parr, Bible teacher and national speaker, earned his Master of Theology degree from Dallas Theological Seminary.  His ministry, The BEAT, stands for "Biblical Encouragement And Truth" and is an online YouTube Channel created in 2015, a ministry birthed as a result of seeing an exodus in many churches away from the Word of God. 

These videos are solid teaching on the church movements which have strayed from the path of conservative Christianity, denying the Trinity - and could pull some new believers, as well as some older believers who have not built a strong foundation of Bible knowledge, into that wayward path with this false theological teachings..

The second playlist of two videos is from the late Dr. R.C. Sproul (1939–2017),  Reformed theologian and ordained pastor in the Presbyterian Church in America,  He was a pastor, a professor, an author, and the founder and president of Ligonier Ministries. 

His contributions in the areas of Biblical studies, theology, worldview and culture, Christian living, and church history are well known across America and internationally.   Although I do not personally agree with Dr. Sproul's Reform / Calvinist theology - I do respect him as a great Christian scholar, pastor, and teacher.

As the German Lutheran theologian of the early seventeenth century, Rupertus Meldenius, admonished all believers in a tract on Christian unity written circa 1627, “In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In ALL Things Charity.“   We should all live by those wonderful words.

There are Essential Christian Doctrines which define our salvation and which cannot be compromised.  And there are many Non-Essential Christian doctrines and teachings which, while important to understand, interesting to discuss, and are helpful in making us more mature believers and witnesses. Yet they DO NOT define nor affect our salvation.

What are the Essential Christian Doctrines which cannot be compromised?

1. The Deity of Jesus Christ:  Preexisting deity, God incarnate - fully man; yet, fully God.  (John 1:1, 1:14, 4:25, 8:58)

2. The Trinity:  God eternally existing; one God manifested (revealed) in three persons: Father, Son, Holy Spirit. (Genesis 1:1, 1:26,  John 1:1, Luke 3:21-22)

3.  The Bible:  Is the Holy Spirit inspired Written Word of God and is the sole authority for Christian faith, salvation, and to guide our Christian lives. (2 Timothy 3:16-17, 2 Peter 1:20-21)

4. Salvation by Grace:  By grace we are saved, through faith in Jesus Christ - plus nothing else. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Isaiah 51:6, Galatians 2:16, John 3:16, 6:47, 10:27-28, Romans 6:23, 10:9, 10:13, Hebrews 9:15)

5. The Resurrection of Christ:  He rose from the dead, that we may also be resurrected into eternal life.  (1 Peter 1:3, John 11:25-26, Acts 10:39-43)

6. The Gospel:  The birth, death, resurrection, ascension, and imminent return of Jesus Christ according to Scripture.   (Luke 1:26-38,  Matthew 1:20-25, Acts 2:24, 2:32, Romans 8:33-34, 1 Timothy 2:5, 1 Peter 2:24, 1 Corinthians 15:1-8, Matthew 24:36)

7.  Heaven and Hell:  Both are real places and are the only two eternal destinations available to all mankind. (Acts 1:9-11,  Hebrews 9:24, Psalm 139:7-8, Matthew 10:28, Mark 9:47, Luke 16:19-31)

To address the issues being raised by my Friend on Facebook surrounding Oneness Pentecostalism vs we who believe the Trinity is definitely taught in the Bible - I suggest you watch the first playlist featuring Allen Parr.  Then if you have the time, definitely watch the two videos from Dr. Sproul.  If not, save the link and come back later.  But I am convinced that if you are a Trinity believer, your knowledge and faith will receive a booster shot by watching these short videos.

If you are in a church fellowship which teaches there is no Trinity I suggest that after watching, following, and studying what these two amazing theologians are sharing with us in these videos, you will be like the gentleman below who responded to Dr. Sproul's video, "One in Essence, Three in Person: The Mystery of the Trinity" video:

Comment from follower:  Bill Iskra - 2 years ago ~  "I am a former Oneness Pentecostal.  I came to see even without contending for a doctrine of the Trinity - that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit exist eternally and are in unity with one another.  I see the concept of 'persons' based upon the fact that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost have a personal relationship with one another and with Christians."

Now get a cup of coffee, turn on your audio, and be thrilled as enjoy these words of knowledge and wisdom in these videos:

Allen Parr On The Trinity, Oneness Pentecostalism, And The Church
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_YT3RttutrgXRwfvkPNJY5kdk7hwziA7

The Trinity - Dr. R. C. Sproul
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_YT3RttutrhG-cYtZLvAP2pPlXeA1H29

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill 

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Tomorrow, September 2, 2022, Is A Very Special Day!

TOMORROW, SEPTEMBER 2, 2022, IS A VERY SPECIAL DAY!  Curious yet?  So much for suspense. 

Tomorrow will be our 45th Wedding Anniversary and as special as that is, that day is also a reminder that I have been triple blessed:  45 years ago I married my beautiful bride, and for 10 years she prayed for me to be saved - so for 35 years I have been a Christian believer - and on July 23, 2022, I became an 85 year young, happily married, Christian believer.

That makes this my 35-45-85 YEAR!  35 years saved and secure in Christ - 45 years of wedded bliss - 85 years young and counting!  Yes, a very blessed man.

I shared the true story below five years ago.  So with a bit of updating, I want to share with you once more how God took a boy out of the bars of Southern California - and placed me into a happy Christian home.  That in preparation, based upon His divine foreknowledge, for me to become a member of His family.  And as frosting on the cake, several years before I became a believer He prepared me for the writing ministry He had planned. 

To do that He guided me toward a Creative Writing class taught by Mrs. Mary Posner, a great teacher, at our local Santa Ana College.  That's another story I will share later.  But with my God-prepared, God-given writing ministry, now no one can shut me up.  Or as Dory puts it, she prayed for ten years for me to become a believer - only to find that she had created a monster who loves to talk and write about God and our Christian faith.  But she is only joking, I hope!

To close this introduction if anyone is curious what Dory and I will do for our 45th Wedding Anniversary - we are staying home!  Why so dull?  Because our California weather has been well over 100 degrees recently and will stay that way for at least another week, with lots of pollen in the humid air - so being an 84 and 85 Year Young couple, the better part of valor is to stay home, hug, wish one another Happy Anniversary - and look forward to our 55th!

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~  ~ ~ ~ ~

Bill Gray shared on September 1, 2017 - (edited and updated)

OVER 50 YEARS AGO I saw the 1962 movie "No Man Is An Island" - the true story of an American sailor, George Tweed, trapped on Guam during World War 2 when the Japanese captured the island.  A Filipino family hid him in caves for several years until the American forces recaptured Guam.

In the movie Tweed falls in love with the Filipina daughter played by Barbara Perez, a Pinoy actress then known as the Audrey Hepburn of the Philippines.  The story of George Tweed is true; the story of a romance was Hollywood - for Tweed was happily married to his wife in America.

But when I saw Barbara Perez, I told myself, "The Filipina is the perfect woman - the fire of the Latina with the grace and femininity of the Asian."   And that day I decided that I was going to marry a Filipina.  I only had one problem - where to find one.

Today I know that problem could have been solved by either going to a church - or by going to a medical clinic or hospital.  But in those days, long before I was a Christian believer, my church was the bars and nightclubs of Southern California.  And I was in good health, so no help there.  Yet I knew I was not going to find a Filipina in a bar or night club that I could take home to mom.

But God is good.  One evening In early 1977 He found me in my place, a nightclub at the Saddleback Hotel in Santa Ana, California.   And guess what?  The Red Carpet Real Estate company held their weekly meetings on Wednesday evenings in one of the Saddleback Hotel conference rooms.  

That evening as I was preparing for my evening of frivolity, one of my friends, Lupe, looked toward the lobby and told me, "Bill, there is Rita."  Rita was a Filipina I had been dating - but not one I would take home to mom.  I told Lupe, "No, that is not Rita.  But I definitely want to meet that beautiful lady." 

And to make a long story a wee bit shorter - Dory and her girl friend, Phil, were just coming out of the Red Carpet meeting and were still in the lobby.  I managed to introduce myself, we talked for awhile, and a week and a half later, on a Saturday evening, we had our first date.

The next morning I went to church with her, not my usual Sunday routine, but pleasant.  How beautiful Dory was that Sunday morning, in a  yellow, almost gold, full length summer dress and wearing a wide brim straw hat of the same color.  That afternoon we went for a ride, went to a movie at Fashion Island in Newport Beach, and then had our first dinner date at the Quiet Cannon (now just named The Cannon) in Dana Point.

That was a defining evening.  We had a booth which looked out over the Dana Point Marina, it was dusk, and the whole scene had that magical glow.  Just the kind of environment to cause love to blossom and begin to- grow.

From that day, we never dated anyone else.   And on September 2, 1977, Dory became my wife, partner, soul mate, and eternal love.  We were wed at the court house in Santa Ana, California, and had a short honeymoon in Ensenada, Mexico, because I had just started a new job.

We still wanted a real honeymoon and for some reason I wanted us to have a church wedding.  Why did I, not a believer, want a church wedding?  I can think of several reasons.  First, I knew that church was important to Dory.

And, second, now after being a Christian believer for 35 years - I know that God is always tugging at our hearts, knocking on the door of our hearts (Revelation 3:20), wanting us to choose to be part of His Eternal Family.  So on September 2, 1980, our 3rd anniversary, we had our church wedding in Honolulu and we had our Hawaiian honeymoon.

On our 6th anniversary we decided to go to Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, for another honeymoon and to get married again.   But search as we might, and with help from an Hispanic couple we met who were vacationing there at their timeshare, the only Protestant church we could find was a burnt-out hull.  So we had to settle for an Anniversary Dinner with this nice couple and their family.

My mom asked Dory, "Why does Bill like to get married again every three years?"   Mom was a Southern Belle and did not understand such thinking.  Dory told her, "That way he always feels like he has only been married for three years."   I told you my Filipina wife is smart!

In 1983, I accepted a position as Western Regional Sales Manager with Phoenix Computer Graphics, a computer graphics company in Lafayette, Louisiana.  One of my stipulations was that I be given the first week of September off to get married again.

The president of the company, a very distinguished, white haired lawyer turned businessman, wrote in my offer letter:  "And we will give you one week off so that you may legitimize your already legitimate marriage."   Who said lawyers do not have a sense of humor?

In Closing, Tomorrow I Declare Marks My 35-45-85 Year! ~ THIRTY-FIVE years I have been a Christian believer ~ FORTY-FIVE years I have been wed to my Filipina Bride ~ and I am EIGHTY-FIVE years young.  God has truly blessed me.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill 

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Should Christian Believers Avoid Political Involvement?

SHOULD CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS AVOID POLITICS - Or Should We Be A Christian Influence In The Governing Bodies Of Our America?

Let me begin by stating that if Christians avoid the political arena, refuse to discuss politics and issues vital to our moral and family values - that will leave a large void, a large empty hole, in our American life, government, and society.  And we all know that an empty hole will not remain empty - but will be filled by whatever dross, dirt, and refuse surrounds it.

In other words, if all Christian influence is removed from American politics, government, governing bodies, and society - then all local, city, state, and federal governments will be completely owned by the secular society, very much like we have been experiencing since the January 2021 Inauguration of Joe Biden, but even greater, i.e., the Biden administration on steroids. 

Then the practice of Relativism, i.e., relative moral values, or as it really should be defined: "no moral values" - will be the only standard left in the governing and control of our homeland, America.

There is a well known quote which has been traveling around the world for over 200 years and while it is not a Biblical quote, many of us might wonder why God left it out of His Bible:

"The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil - is that Good Men Do Nothing."

I bet that YOU have most likely quoted that adage many times yourself, without giving any thought to its origin.  You would be in good company if you said that this quote came from Edmund Burke, Irish-born British statesman, economist, and philosopher (1729-1797).  Many very knowledgeable people would agree with you. 

Even President John F. Kennedy in a 1961 address to the Canadian Parliament, used a version of the quotation and credited it to Edmund Burke.  Yet study has shown that Edmund Burke was not the source of those very wise words.  To be honest, research has shown that no one knows where it originated.  There are many educated guesses - but no provable person of origin.

Could this be a wee bit of God humor?  That He gives us so much wisdom in one sentence - then cleverly hides the name of its originator?

1 Corinthians 1:27 (nasb), "But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise - and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong,"

And consider the mystery of the death and burial of Moses:

Deuteronomy 34:5-6 (nasb), "So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.  And He (God) buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Peor; but no one knows his grave to this day."

It seems that the only person who has correctly attributed that quote was the Reverend Charles F. Aked (1864-1926), English / American clergy, in a speech addressing prohibition quoted this adage, but prefaced it with: “it has been said” to signal that he was not claiming originality.

“The people in the liquor traffic,” said the speaker, “simply want us to do nothing. That’s all the devil wants of the son of God - to be let alone. That is all that the criminal wants of the law - to be let alone. The sin of doing nothing is the deadliest of all the seven sins. It has been said that for evil men to accomplish their purpose it is only necessary that good men should do nothing.”

You might ask, "But, Bill, what does that have to do with Christian involvement in politics?"  Glad you asked.  It could mean the end of moral and family values in America, especially your children's and your grandchildren's America.  It could be seen as the legacy YOU have left for them.

So what do we know about Christian involvement and Christian influence in all levels of American, and world, government?  We know that, even though some Christians erroneously believe that we should not be mixing our Christian faith and politics - as long as the Christian church, the worldwide body of believers, is still in these mortal bodies - many of us WILL be involved in the political decisions of government. 

It may be as active believers elected to governing offices - OR - it may be only as "We The People" demanding of our elected officials that our Moral Values not be swept under the secular rug.

One day, and no one knows the day or time - Jesus Christ will come to call His people, His church, all believers, home to be with Him (John 14:1-3).  Yet when the church is Raptured from this world - will the Holy Spirit be taken out also?  Many think that is what 2 Thessalonians 2:7-9 is teaching. 

But I disagree.  That Scripture passage is speaking of the "influence" of the Holy Spirit, the Restrainer, being temporarily removed from earth because all believers will have been removed.  No Christians left on the earth - no Christian influence to restrain the evil of the Relativistic Secular World.

2 Thessalonians  2:7-9, "For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains (the Holy Spirit) will do so until He is taken out of the way.  And then the lawless one (the Antichrist) will be revealed, .  .  .  The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, "

We who follow Christ and study His Word, know that one day, in the God-determined End Times, all believers will be removed from earth, i.e., all Christian believers will be Raptured from this world.  At that time all Christian influence will be removed - and the world, with all Christian influence gone, will become a totally Secular Society. 

When Christians say we should not be involved in politics - they seem to be advocating an earlier arrival of that Secular Society, a world that would be ruled by Relative Moral Values - to the applause of Satan himself. 

Sadly it is true that many good Christian believers, clergy and laity, mistakenly believe we should not be involved in politics, that we should not be speaking out for our Traditional Moral Values, that we should not be strongly advocating that those Christian Moral Values be respected.

A few months ago a pastor Friend, whose church we were visiting, told me, "Bill, you are a Christian writer, you should not be posting about politics."  He wanted to pray for me, so I agreed - then I left his church never to return again.  He is still a Friend, but from a distance.

More recently, my wife and I were having lunch with a Christian friend and she shared her belief that Christians should stay out of politics.  I explained to her that without Christian Influence, an empty hole created by that absence, will be filled.  But the important question, and the problem is - WHAT will fill that empty hole?  If not Christian Influence - then Secular dross, the amoral Relative Values of the Left?
 
If we allow Christian influence to be taken out of politics, which seems to already be happening in the current administration in Washington DC - that empty hole will quickly be filled with amoral secular thinking and decision making in our government.  And amoral secular Relativism will continue to be taught to our children in public schools. 

In other words, without Christian Influence, we will have a 100% secular government which wants to tear down the wall of religious freedom and moral values established by our founding fathers nearly 250 years ago.   That is a good description of the Biden administration today.

As I told our Christian sister at lunch that day, "We should never have a Religion Test as a criteria for holding public office - but we MUST have more Christian influence within our public offices."  In other words, we should and MUST look at a person's Moral Values when we vote. Typically a Leftist will have NO moral values - whereas a true Conservative will have Moral Values, at least to some degree.

We MUST HAVE Christian Influence in our halls of government.  That is not the same as having a Religion Test for being elected - but a Moral Values criteria for the politician asking for our votes.  In my opinion, an amoral person should not be in public office.  A good example is Kamala Harris who wants more abortions, more freedom in killing babies via abortions.  Kamala was given the job of securing our borders - and has never even visited our southern border - nor has she attempted to do anything about the flood of illegals crossing our southern border daily.

However, since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade, which simply sent the right to have, or not have, abortions back to the states where it belongs - Kamala Harris has been spending all her waking moments demanding abortions be made available, at taxpayers' expense - and Joe Biden is agreeing with her.

By the way, I have a dual reason for posting this blog which was inspired by the graphic below:  (1) Our Political Involvement In Government - and (2) Sharing And Discussing Our Christian Faith. 

In other words, I believe strongly that "Civil Conversations" should apply to our political involvement and discussions - and definitely in our discussions of theology.   I know there are folks who will take the position that if you do not hold 100% to my theology, we have nothing to discuss.  To me, that is a wrong attitude.

My position has long been that even though we may disagree on some Non-Essential Christian Doctrines, maybe even disagreeing on the existence of God - LET'S TALK ABOUT IT!  I want to know why you believe as you do.  And I want to share with you why I am a Christian believer and what I believe.  Yet, in a civil, non-aggressive discussion. 

At times Friends get aggravated with me when I tell them that there will be just as many Calvinist, Arminianists, etc., in heaven as there will be we folks who live in the middle of the theology spectrum.  I am always willing to have civil discussions, and believe they are worthwhile, with folks holding other beliefs and political views.

Matter of fact, some of my best Christian Friends are Calvinist.  I don't know how they can support their Predestination from Scripture - but I will not scratch them from my Friends List because of it.  Nor will I Unfriend anyone for holding Calvinist, Arminian, or even more extreme beliefs, for I think most are very sincere in their theological beliefs, even though they are sincerely wrong.  But that is another discussion.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill 

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