WHAT WOULD JESUS TELL US? - If you are a pastor or church planter, young or more mature, and set out to plant a church - would Jesus instruct you to lure young people away from existing churches - and, in this way, bring them, their friends, and their families into your newly planted church? Or, would Jesus tell you to go into the highways and byways, i.e., to the unchurched and unsaved, and bring them into My house (Matthew 22:9, Luke 14:23)?
Although I am not a fan of Pastor Rick Warren's Social Theology nor his views on inter-religion ecumenism -- I am a strong fan of his ideas on church planting and church growth. In his book, published in 1995, titled "The Purpose Driven Church," Warren says, "The Saddleback statistic I'm most pleased about is the fact that 80 percent of our members found Christ and were baptized at Saddleback. We have not grown at the expense of other churches" (page 50).
In his autobiography "Strength For The Journey," Jerry Falwell tells of the beginning of the Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, Virginia. Their first service was in the Mountain View Elementary School in Lynchburg; they had 35 people that day. The next week, Jerry and several men went in search of a permanent church building and found a deserted soda bottling building -- with sticky syrup still clinging to the floors, walls, and even the ceiling. They went to work cleaning it and on a July Sunday in 1956, they held their first service in their new Thomas Road Baptist church building.
To grow the church, Jerry took a map of the area, put a black spot on the location of the church -- and drew 1/2 mile circles around it. That first morning, he lay the map on a table, lay his Bible on it -- and read from Acts 1:8 the message Jesus left for His apostles and for us, ". . . and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."
Then, Jerry went door-knocking, setting as his goal 100 homes a day, 6 days a week. First, in the 1/2 mile circle around the new church building. When he had saturated that circle, he expanded to the 1 mile circle -- and continued this process until he had saturated the entire community with his door-knocking and inviting the unchurched to come to Thomas Road Baptist church.
On page 184 of his book, Jerry writes, "I wasn't out to steal souls from other congregations in the area. In fact I congratulated each person who claimed active church membership and wished them and their church God's best."
I sincerely believe this is what Jesus Christ is telling us in Matthew 20:19-20: Go - Make Disciples - Baptize Them - Teach Them.
And, in Matthew 22:9, He is telling us to, "Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the Wedding Feast."
No where does He tell us to go into other churches; to use our ability to relate to young people as a lure to bring them into a newly planted church -- and through those young people, to bring their friends and families into the new church. That is not church planting and church growth. That is spiritual felony! And, that is not what Jesus Christ has told us to do.
Just my thoughts.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Saturday, November 6, 2010
Tuesday, October 5, 2010
Bible Translations - Which One?
On the TimesDaily Religion Forum, I began a discussion by asking the question, "Should We Interpret The Bible?" And, my Forum Friend, Tigrtrek replied, "Of course people should read the Bible and decide for themselves. (Does) 'Study to show thyself approved rightly dividing the word of truth' ring a bell? Don't let someone -- me, Bill, the Pope, Pat Robertson, or anyone tell you what it (the Bible) says. Read it yourself. And don't limit yourself to any one translation. I spent too many years blinded by a KJV-only bias."
Tigr, I agree with you completely that we should not limit ourselves to one specific Bible translation. Personally, my main Bible is the NASB; but, when doing an indepth study of a passage I will use the NASB, the NKJV, and sometimes the KJV. These are word for word translations and tend to be better for such studies. In my writings, I will sometimes use the NIV when it better expresses the thought I am trying to convey.
I stay away from all paraphrase Bibles, such as Peterson's "The Message." The paraphrase Bibles tend to be more just the author's interpretation and not a translation, i.e., it is closer to a commentary than a Bible translation. Another paraphrase Bible is "The Living Bible." On the title page, in the subtitle, it reads "Paraphrased, A Thought-for-Thought Translation." No, a Bible cannot be a "paraphrase" and, at the same time, be a "translation." Another paraphrase Bibles is the "Good News for Modern Man" -- also called Today's English Version.
The "New Living Translation" began as a redo of "The Living Bible" and would fall more into the category of the NIV.
In a discussion of the New Living Translation, we read at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Living_Translation :
"It has been suggested that this "thought-for-thought" methodology, while making the translation easier to understand, is less accurate than a literal (formal equivalence) method, and thus the New Living Translation may not be suitable for those wishing to undertake detailed study of the Bible."
I also stay away from the Amplified Bible for a similar reason -- the amplification tends to put it more into a commentary status. And, I tend to stay away from the "gender neutral" translations such as the TNIV. In my thinking, if God had intended the Bible to be gender neutral -- He would have authored it that way.
A very good Bible web site is the Blue Letter Bible: http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.cfm
The Blue Letter Bible web site has 12 English translations as well as Spanish, Latin Vulgate, Greek, and Hebrew. You can choose to view a verse in side by side translations for comparison -- or view a chapter in any of the available translations. The site offers Strong's Concordance for word studies, commentaries, Bible dictionary aids, and other great information to help in your Bible study.
Like you, Tigr, I am a wee bit uneasy when someone tells me that we must use only the KJV Bible. And, I agree with you that we must never allow anyone, myself included, to dictate to us what a Scripture verse or passage means, i.e., that their interpretation is the absolute and only correct interpretation.
Yet, on the other hand, I will suggest to anyone who is a new believer, who is not yet mature in Biblical knowledge -- that you find someone who is mature and can mentor you. And, get involved in a good Bible study group -- and do not miss your church's Sunday School classes. I know that, in the church I attend, our Sunday School classes have always tended to be as interactive, challenging, and exciting as our Bible studies. This is an environment where we all can grow more mature in our personal knowledge of God's Word.
I recall my own situation the first few years I was a believer. My Bible knowledge was more on the "Kindergarten" level. In early 1991, during the "Operation Desert Storm" Gulf War, when Iraq set all the oil fields on fire and the scene was looking like Armageddon -- our Bible study leader, Tom Fletcher, began to talk about the Rapture, the Tribulation, etc.
And, I had no idea what he was talking about. Of course, I was not going to ask and show my Bible ignorance -- so, I just smiled and pretended to know what he meant. And, then, I began my own quest to understand End Times eschatology.
But, my point is that we all, when we are new Christian believers, need someone more mature in the Word to mentor us. I began reading Dr. J. Vernon McGee and other Bible teachers, listening as much as possible to KWVE Christian Radio, as well as attending Bible studies and Sunday School classes. I have attended Eschatology Conferences -- and, yes, I read the full set of "Left Behind" series books by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins -- and many other good books on eschatology.
I found mentors and learned from them. Some I soon outgrew, i.e., wanted more meat in my Biblical diet -- so, I moved on to other mentors. And, today, I am still learning -- and have built quite a nice personal library.
However, with all that said -- I have never met, heard, or read a Bible teacher, scholar, or theologian with whom I agree 100% of the time. I do as the apostle Paul tells us in Acts 17:11 -- I read, listen, etc., to my teachers -- consider what they have taught me -- and then, compare it with what I find in Scripture. And, from this -- I settle on what I believe this Scripture passage is teaching me.
Doing this, I feel that I am fairly well grounded in my theology and that I stand on a pretty solid theological foundation. Could I be wrong on some things? You bet! But, I will keep studying and learning until the day I breath my last breath in this mortal body or He comes to rapture me.
And, then, my real education will begin. Can you imagine having an eternity, all that time -- to continue learning? Do you doubt this is true? Consider this point. Only God knows everything and cannot learn.
If we could ever get to a point where we know everything and there is nothing more we can learn -- we would be Gods. Since we know this will never happen (Lucifer is good proof of this) -- then, we must keep learning even after we are in the eternal presence of God. Isn't that exciting? All of these issues which we are debating today, we will know -- and much more. Yes, exciting! I can hardly wait to begin working on my Advanced Degree!
If you have found this useful, please feel free to share it with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's all study to grow more mature in our knowledge of God's Word -- and then use that knowledge to share the Gospel with all the world -- until He returns.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
Tigr, I agree with you completely that we should not limit ourselves to one specific Bible translation. Personally, my main Bible is the NASB; but, when doing an indepth study of a passage I will use the NASB, the NKJV, and sometimes the KJV. These are word for word translations and tend to be better for such studies. In my writings, I will sometimes use the NIV when it better expresses the thought I am trying to convey.
I stay away from all paraphrase Bibles, such as Peterson's "The Message." The paraphrase Bibles tend to be more just the author's interpretation and not a translation, i.e., it is closer to a commentary than a Bible translation. Another paraphrase Bible is "The Living Bible." On the title page, in the subtitle, it reads "Paraphrased, A Thought-for-Thought Translation." No, a Bible cannot be a "paraphrase" and, at the same time, be a "translation." Another paraphrase Bibles is the "Good News for Modern Man" -- also called Today's English Version.
The "New Living Translation" began as a redo of "The Living Bible" and would fall more into the category of the NIV.
In a discussion of the New Living Translation, we read at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Living_Translation :
"It has been suggested that this "thought-for-thought" methodology, while making the translation easier to understand, is less accurate than a literal (formal equivalence) method, and thus the New Living Translation may not be suitable for those wishing to undertake detailed study of the Bible."
I also stay away from the Amplified Bible for a similar reason -- the amplification tends to put it more into a commentary status. And, I tend to stay away from the "gender neutral" translations such as the TNIV. In my thinking, if God had intended the Bible to be gender neutral -- He would have authored it that way.
A very good Bible web site is the Blue Letter Bible: http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.cfm
The Blue Letter Bible web site has 12 English translations as well as Spanish, Latin Vulgate, Greek, and Hebrew. You can choose to view a verse in side by side translations for comparison -- or view a chapter in any of the available translations. The site offers Strong's Concordance for word studies, commentaries, Bible dictionary aids, and other great information to help in your Bible study.
Like you, Tigr, I am a wee bit uneasy when someone tells me that we must use only the KJV Bible. And, I agree with you that we must never allow anyone, myself included, to dictate to us what a Scripture verse or passage means, i.e., that their interpretation is the absolute and only correct interpretation.
Yet, on the other hand, I will suggest to anyone who is a new believer, who is not yet mature in Biblical knowledge -- that you find someone who is mature and can mentor you. And, get involved in a good Bible study group -- and do not miss your church's Sunday School classes. I know that, in the church I attend, our Sunday School classes have always tended to be as interactive, challenging, and exciting as our Bible studies. This is an environment where we all can grow more mature in our personal knowledge of God's Word.
I recall my own situation the first few years I was a believer. My Bible knowledge was more on the "Kindergarten" level. In early 1991, during the "Operation Desert Storm" Gulf War, when Iraq set all the oil fields on fire and the scene was looking like Armageddon -- our Bible study leader, Tom Fletcher, began to talk about the Rapture, the Tribulation, etc.
And, I had no idea what he was talking about. Of course, I was not going to ask and show my Bible ignorance -- so, I just smiled and pretended to know what he meant. And, then, I began my own quest to understand End Times eschatology.
But, my point is that we all, when we are new Christian believers, need someone more mature in the Word to mentor us. I began reading Dr. J. Vernon McGee and other Bible teachers, listening as much as possible to KWVE Christian Radio, as well as attending Bible studies and Sunday School classes. I have attended Eschatology Conferences -- and, yes, I read the full set of "Left Behind" series books by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins -- and many other good books on eschatology.
I found mentors and learned from them. Some I soon outgrew, i.e., wanted more meat in my Biblical diet -- so, I moved on to other mentors. And, today, I am still learning -- and have built quite a nice personal library.
However, with all that said -- I have never met, heard, or read a Bible teacher, scholar, or theologian with whom I agree 100% of the time. I do as the apostle Paul tells us in Acts 17:11 -- I read, listen, etc., to my teachers -- consider what they have taught me -- and then, compare it with what I find in Scripture. And, from this -- I settle on what I believe this Scripture passage is teaching me.
Doing this, I feel that I am fairly well grounded in my theology and that I stand on a pretty solid theological foundation. Could I be wrong on some things? You bet! But, I will keep studying and learning until the day I breath my last breath in this mortal body or He comes to rapture me.
And, then, my real education will begin. Can you imagine having an eternity, all that time -- to continue learning? Do you doubt this is true? Consider this point. Only God knows everything and cannot learn.
If we could ever get to a point where we know everything and there is nothing more we can learn -- we would be Gods. Since we know this will never happen (Lucifer is good proof of this) -- then, we must keep learning even after we are in the eternal presence of God. Isn't that exciting? All of these issues which we are debating today, we will know -- and much more. Yes, exciting! I can hardly wait to begin working on my Advanced Degree!
If you have found this useful, please feel free to share it with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's all study to grow more mature in our knowledge of God's Word -- and then use that knowledge to share the Gospel with all the world -- until He returns.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
Thursday, September 30, 2010
Gianna Jessen: Abortion Survivor! - Video
Today, a young lady, a Christian sister, shared this video on Facebook -- and I have to continue that sharing on every venue God has given me. This video is the most important I have ever watched. And, I urge you to watch it and to share it.
GIANNA JESSEN - ABORTION SURVIVOR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOWMmx6eBjU
SHARE THIS VIDEO WITH THE WORLD! -- I thank my dear sister in Christ, Valerie Zin, for making me aware of this video.
In the late 1990s, my wife, Dory, and I attended an anti-abortion fund raising concert hosted by Dr. David Hocking and Pat Boone at Calvary Church in Santa Ana, California. The two special guests were Joni Eareckson Tada and a teenage girl in a wheel chair who had survived a Saline Abortion.
For those not familiar with saline abortions -- to an unborn baby it is like giving it a bath in acid. This method of abortion is intended to burn the unborn child to death in the womb. At the concert, this teenage girl in her wheel chair sang a love song to Jesus Christ. That teenage girl we saw at the concert -- is the beautiful lady in this video, Gianna Jessen.
Who can better speak, in person and in her life -- against abortion, all abortions, than this lady? Who can speak of the glory of God's love -- louder than this articulate lady? Who should we, the world, be listening to -- this lady blessed by God with life -- or the abortionists who get rich by killing, snuffing out the lives, of millions of unborn babies each year?
I thank God for Gianna Jessen; I thank God for her brave stance against the infanticide of millions of babies each year via legal abortions; I thank God for Gianna Jessen's life and courage.
This could be the most important sixteen minutes of your life. This sixteen minute video -- just may save the life of ONE UNBORN BABY! Share this video and this message with the world!
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOWMmx6eBjU
SHARE THIS VIDEO WITH THE WORLD! -- I thank my dear sister in Christ, Valerie Zin, for making me aware of this video.
In the late 1990s, my wife, Dory, and I attended an anti-abortion fund raising concert hosted by Dr. David Hocking and Pat Boone at Calvary Church in Santa Ana, California. The two special guests were Joni Eareckson Tada and a teenage girl in a wheel chair who had survived a Saline Abortion.
For those not familiar with saline abortions -- to an unborn baby it is like giving it a bath in acid. This method of abortion is intended to burn the unborn child to death in the womb. At the concert, this teenage girl in her wheel chair sang a love song to Jesus Christ. That teenage girl we saw at the concert -- is the beautiful lady in this video, Gianna Jessen.
Who can better speak, in person and in her life -- against abortion, all abortions, than this lady? Who can speak of the glory of God's love -- louder than this articulate lady? Who should we, the world, be listening to -- this lady blessed by God with life -- or the abortionists who get rich by killing, snuffing out the lives, of millions of unborn babies each year?
I thank God for Gianna Jessen; I thank God for her brave stance against the infanticide of millions of babies each year via legal abortions; I thank God for Gianna Jessen's life and courage.
This could be the most important sixteen minutes of your life. This sixteen minute video -- just may save the life of ONE UNBORN BABY! Share this video and this message with the world!
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
Tuesday, September 14, 2010
Why Do Non-believers Post So Zealously
On The Religion Forum?
On The Religion Forum?
Do atheists and secularist really believe there is no God? Or, is that their desired belief? While I do understand that there are people who can commit heinous crimes, murder, rape, child abuse, etc., with no apparent feelings of guilt, i.e., with no guilty conscience -- I suppose I want to believe those are the exceptions, the human anomalies, and not the norm.
So, when a large number of people tell me that they do not believe God exists -- I have to wonder how many of these are the anomalies, and how many only want to deny God exists, because they do not want to allow Him to be master of their lives?
Once again, I want to believe that the majority are in the latter group -- and there is still a chance to bring them to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Maybe I am naive; but, I know that my God exists -- and I know that He can save even the most stubborn and hopeless people. He proved that with the apostle, Paul, in Acts, chapter 9.
If you agree, share this with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep telling the world about the love of God; about His Word, written just for them; and the Gospel of Jesus Christ who wants all to be saved. Let's keep telling them all -- until He returns.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi to all my Forum Friends,
In the discussion titled "So Does God Decide Who Goes To Hell?" begun by our new Forum Friend, or an old Friend with a new posting name, Everlasting Godstopper (what does this posting name tell you?) -- there has been a running dialogue between Jan, a declared atheist, and Peter, a Christian believer.
As usual, Jan, and all of our atheist Friends, are comparing our belief in God to children's belief in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. She tells Peter, "A child believes in a Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, right? However, when they grow up most put those kinds of fairy tales behind them and realized that they are not real. Some kids apparently only grow out of certain fairy tales and hold on to others. You seem to be one of those kids that held on to the biggest one of all.
So, because some of us other kids grew up and read a science book or two, we got past all those childhood falsehoods. Including your scary god figure that knows when we are sleeping, that knows when we're a wake, who knows if we've been bad or good. Oh for goodness sake!
And, Peter responds to Jan, "(Since) you think of God in the same way you think of Santa -- why are you wasting your time on a Forum about God?
Seriously! I don't care if you think of Him as a sky fairy. That's your choice. And, if I'm correct in my beliefs, you will have to deal with that choice one day. But why do you continue to scream from the mountain tops that the 'sky fairy' isn't real? Do you do that about Santa, the Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny? NO? Didn't think so. God is so irrelevant to you, (yet) you sure do seem to spend a ton of time and energy discussing Him."
Peter, as long as the atheists can close their eyes (spiritual eyes) and keep repeating, "He is not real! He is not real! He is not real!" -- they can pretend, and, I imagine, even to some degree, convince themselves that He is not real.
I am reminded of a time when my brother and I were young boys in Sheffield. One evening, we were home alone and in bed -- when we heard someone opening a window and coming into our home. So, we did the intelligent thing -- we pulled the blanket over our heads! Hey, if we could not see him -- surely he could not see us! Right? Wrong!
When I was a young adult, believe it or not, I was, not necessarily afraid -- but, very nervous in the dark. I suppose I was imagining all the things lurking in the dark which could jump out and grab me. But, there I was -- a young adult -- and, basically afraid of the dark.
Then, I read a book by John Steinbeck, "Travels With Charlie." Steinbeck, who came from the mid-California Monterey area, had written about America for years and decided it was time to get on the road and see America again. He had a camper put on his pickup truck -- and, with his large poodle, Charlie, set out to see America.
Normally, he stopped at camp grounds so that he could interact with people. But, one evening there was no camp ground available; so, he pulled off the highway and parked for the night. In the middle of the night, he began to hear all sorts of night noises. He became nervous, got his gun, and went outside to see what was up. As it turned out, it was just that -- night noises and noises from the camper settling. So, once he had assured himself that all was well, he slept well.
Reading this, I thought to myself, "Self, if a manly man such as John Steinbeck can be afraid of the dark -- then, why are you so worried about this silly fear?" And, believe it or not -- from that moment I have never been nervous in the dark. As a matter of fact, I cannot sleep well unless it is very dark. If there is light seeping into the room where I am sleeping, I have to get a night mask to prevent the light from keeping me awake. Quite a reversal.
And, I sense that our atheist Friends fear that same kind of spiritual reversal, i.e, if they acknowledge God -- they will be accountable to God. Then, they could not be "masters of their own world" -- they could not be their own gods. So, the more this idea of a true God of the Bible tends to seep in through the cracks -- the bigger their night mask must be to keep Him out.
How can this dilemma -- this fear that there could be a real God and that He would take control of our lives and we would be His slaves -- be prevented? Well, I would suggest that we begin by teaching our children about God and His love when they are very young. Then, they can grow up understanding, feeling, and growing in the love of God -- rather than in fear of God.
Let me give you a good example; once again using my brother and me, and our childhood. When we were young -- 9, 10, 11, 12 -- we were both tall and skinny. Even though he is three years older, we were always about the same size. Yet, when we did things -- he was always the best, he always won. When we went into PeeWee Football, he was always the first string player -- and I was his second string backup. With the young ladies -- even those I had a crush on, always seemed to like my brother better.
Needless to say, I grew up feeling second best. How could this have been prevented? If only my mom, or some other adult in the family, would have set me down and explained that Bob is three years older and should be stronger and more mature; very likely things would have been different. No one ever did this and consequently I grew up feeling second best.
We even carried this silent competition into high school. Bob was the star of our Sheffield High track team. He was, with no doubt, the best 440 Dash runner in the state of Alabama at that time -- and was offered a scholarship to the University of Alabama. And, I have no doubt that, had he pursued this, he would have gone to the Olympics. Instead, he got married while still in high school.
Yet, this I will declare, again with absolute certainty, his wife for 56 years, Mary, is a far greater prize than any Olympic gold medal.
In high school, I played varsity basketball. I would go to Bob's track meets and cheer my head off for him; but, no way would I allow him to know this. In the same way, he would cheer for me at our Sheffield basketball games. But, in person -- you suck!
My point in this personal excursion into the past is that, if some adult had set me and Bob down as young boys and explained to us about our bodies, how he was supposed to be stronger and more mature because he was three years older -- very likely we would not have developed that competitive sibling rivalry which carried over into our adult lives. Today, praise God, that feeling is totally dead. But, I mourn the lost sibling camaraderie of those young years.
In the same way, if parents and grandparents are Christian believers, if children are raised in Godly Christian homes and environments -- they will grow up loving God and not fearing Him. That should be the goal of all parents and grandparents. But, of course, the parents and grandparents need to be Christian believers -- before they can raise the children to love God.
Assuring that all children will have this kind of Christian home environment in which to grow in God's love -- by witnessing to and evangelizing non-believing adults who are parents and grandparents, and young adult who will become parents -- should be our highest priority for all Christian believers. We can help plant the "seeds of salvation" which can turn a secular home into a Christian home -- and into a Christian environment in which children can grow into God loving, God worshiping, young adults. Can you think of a more effective way of assuring the eternal happiness of our children?
Of course, our atheist Friends will answer that last question by replying, "Yes! Just leave them alone and let them develop their own ideas and morality." That, my Friends, is called Moral Relativism and is the rallying call of all atheists and secularist -- and was the driving motivation for Madelyn Murray O'Hair and the ACLU in 1963 when they had God and prayer evicted from our pubic schools.
We all have witnessed the happy results of that 1963 decision by the Supreme Court: an explosion of drive-by shootings and teenage crimes; runaway teen pregnancy; rampant drug use among young children; children in elementary schools now routinely having sex; and, the highlight of the secular world view -- the "politically correct" teaching and indoctrination of homosexuality and same-sex marriage in our public schools, beginning in Kindergarten.
How has America and our families benefited from the secular Moral Relativism? How has America and our families benefited from God and prayer being evicted from our schools? In absolutely no way! Since 1963, it has been all down hill.
Since 1963, the only bastion for Positive Moral Values, i.e., Christian Values -- are our Christian homes, our Christian churches, and our Christian schools where children can escape the indoctrination of the secular schools -- and grow in the love of God and Godly families.
What is next on the secular/atheist agenda? What is the next move in their attempts to deny God?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
So, when a large number of people tell me that they do not believe God exists -- I have to wonder how many of these are the anomalies, and how many only want to deny God exists, because they do not want to allow Him to be master of their lives?
Once again, I want to believe that the majority are in the latter group -- and there is still a chance to bring them to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Maybe I am naive; but, I know that my God exists -- and I know that He can save even the most stubborn and hopeless people. He proved that with the apostle, Paul, in Acts, chapter 9.
If you agree, share this with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep telling the world about the love of God; about His Word, written just for them; and the Gospel of Jesus Christ who wants all to be saved. Let's keep telling them all -- until He returns.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi to all my Forum Friends,
In the discussion titled "So Does God Decide Who Goes To Hell?" begun by our new Forum Friend, or an old Friend with a new posting name, Everlasting Godstopper (what does this posting name tell you?) -- there has been a running dialogue between Jan, a declared atheist, and Peter, a Christian believer.
As usual, Jan, and all of our atheist Friends, are comparing our belief in God to children's belief in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. She tells Peter, "A child believes in a Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, right? However, when they grow up most put those kinds of fairy tales behind them and realized that they are not real. Some kids apparently only grow out of certain fairy tales and hold on to others. You seem to be one of those kids that held on to the biggest one of all.
So, because some of us other kids grew up and read a science book or two, we got past all those childhood falsehoods. Including your scary god figure that knows when we are sleeping, that knows when we're a wake, who knows if we've been bad or good. Oh for goodness sake!
And, Peter responds to Jan, "(Since) you think of God in the same way you think of Santa -- why are you wasting your time on a Forum about God?
Seriously! I don't care if you think of Him as a sky fairy. That's your choice. And, if I'm correct in my beliefs, you will have to deal with that choice one day. But why do you continue to scream from the mountain tops that the 'sky fairy' isn't real? Do you do that about Santa, the Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny? NO? Didn't think so. God is so irrelevant to you, (yet) you sure do seem to spend a ton of time and energy discussing Him."
Peter, as long as the atheists can close their eyes (spiritual eyes) and keep repeating, "He is not real! He is not real! He is not real!" -- they can pretend, and, I imagine, even to some degree, convince themselves that He is not real.
I am reminded of a time when my brother and I were young boys in Sheffield. One evening, we were home alone and in bed -- when we heard someone opening a window and coming into our home. So, we did the intelligent thing -- we pulled the blanket over our heads! Hey, if we could not see him -- surely he could not see us! Right? Wrong!
When I was a young adult, believe it or not, I was, not necessarily afraid -- but, very nervous in the dark. I suppose I was imagining all the things lurking in the dark which could jump out and grab me. But, there I was -- a young adult -- and, basically afraid of the dark.
Then, I read a book by John Steinbeck, "Travels With Charlie." Steinbeck, who came from the mid-California Monterey area, had written about America for years and decided it was time to get on the road and see America again. He had a camper put on his pickup truck -- and, with his large poodle, Charlie, set out to see America.
Normally, he stopped at camp grounds so that he could interact with people. But, one evening there was no camp ground available; so, he pulled off the highway and parked for the night. In the middle of the night, he began to hear all sorts of night noises. He became nervous, got his gun, and went outside to see what was up. As it turned out, it was just that -- night noises and noises from the camper settling. So, once he had assured himself that all was well, he slept well.
Reading this, I thought to myself, "Self, if a manly man such as John Steinbeck can be afraid of the dark -- then, why are you so worried about this silly fear?" And, believe it or not -- from that moment I have never been nervous in the dark. As a matter of fact, I cannot sleep well unless it is very dark. If there is light seeping into the room where I am sleeping, I have to get a night mask to prevent the light from keeping me awake. Quite a reversal.
And, I sense that our atheist Friends fear that same kind of spiritual reversal, i.e, if they acknowledge God -- they will be accountable to God. Then, they could not be "masters of their own world" -- they could not be their own gods. So, the more this idea of a true God of the Bible tends to seep in through the cracks -- the bigger their night mask must be to keep Him out.
How can this dilemma -- this fear that there could be a real God and that He would take control of our lives and we would be His slaves -- be prevented? Well, I would suggest that we begin by teaching our children about God and His love when they are very young. Then, they can grow up understanding, feeling, and growing in the love of God -- rather than in fear of God.
Let me give you a good example; once again using my brother and me, and our childhood. When we were young -- 9, 10, 11, 12 -- we were both tall and skinny. Even though he is three years older, we were always about the same size. Yet, when we did things -- he was always the best, he always won. When we went into PeeWee Football, he was always the first string player -- and I was his second string backup. With the young ladies -- even those I had a crush on, always seemed to like my brother better.
Needless to say, I grew up feeling second best. How could this have been prevented? If only my mom, or some other adult in the family, would have set me down and explained that Bob is three years older and should be stronger and more mature; very likely things would have been different. No one ever did this and consequently I grew up feeling second best.
We even carried this silent competition into high school. Bob was the star of our Sheffield High track team. He was, with no doubt, the best 440 Dash runner in the state of Alabama at that time -- and was offered a scholarship to the University of Alabama. And, I have no doubt that, had he pursued this, he would have gone to the Olympics. Instead, he got married while still in high school.
Yet, this I will declare, again with absolute certainty, his wife for 56 years, Mary, is a far greater prize than any Olympic gold medal.
In high school, I played varsity basketball. I would go to Bob's track meets and cheer my head off for him; but, no way would I allow him to know this. In the same way, he would cheer for me at our Sheffield basketball games. But, in person -- you suck!
My point in this personal excursion into the past is that, if some adult had set me and Bob down as young boys and explained to us about our bodies, how he was supposed to be stronger and more mature because he was three years older -- very likely we would not have developed that competitive sibling rivalry which carried over into our adult lives. Today, praise God, that feeling is totally dead. But, I mourn the lost sibling camaraderie of those young years.
In the same way, if parents and grandparents are Christian believers, if children are raised in Godly Christian homes and environments -- they will grow up loving God and not fearing Him. That should be the goal of all parents and grandparents. But, of course, the parents and grandparents need to be Christian believers -- before they can raise the children to love God.
Assuring that all children will have this kind of Christian home environment in which to grow in God's love -- by witnessing to and evangelizing non-believing adults who are parents and grandparents, and young adult who will become parents -- should be our highest priority for all Christian believers. We can help plant the "seeds of salvation" which can turn a secular home into a Christian home -- and into a Christian environment in which children can grow into God loving, God worshiping, young adults. Can you think of a more effective way of assuring the eternal happiness of our children?
Of course, our atheist Friends will answer that last question by replying, "Yes! Just leave them alone and let them develop their own ideas and morality." That, my Friends, is called Moral Relativism and is the rallying call of all atheists and secularist -- and was the driving motivation for Madelyn Murray O'Hair and the ACLU in 1963 when they had God and prayer evicted from our pubic schools.
We all have witnessed the happy results of that 1963 decision by the Supreme Court: an explosion of drive-by shootings and teenage crimes; runaway teen pregnancy; rampant drug use among young children; children in elementary schools now routinely having sex; and, the highlight of the secular world view -- the "politically correct" teaching and indoctrination of homosexuality and same-sex marriage in our public schools, beginning in Kindergarten.
How has America and our families benefited from the secular Moral Relativism? How has America and our families benefited from God and prayer being evicted from our schools? In absolutely no way! Since 1963, it has been all down hill.
Since 1963, the only bastion for Positive Moral Values, i.e., Christian Values -- are our Christian homes, our Christian churches, and our Christian schools where children can escape the indoctrination of the secular schools -- and grow in the love of God and Godly families.
What is next on the secular/atheist agenda? What is the next move in their attempts to deny God?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Sunday, September 12, 2010
Who Is To Blame - God Or You?
So many non-believers want to blame God -- instead of looking within themselves. They will ask, "How can a loving God condemn anyone to spend eternity in hell?" And, the answer: God does not condemn anyone to hell.
Each person, individually, either chooses salvation and eternal life in Jesus Christ -- or they choose eternity in hell with Satan.
Each person's eternal destination depends solely upon the decision he/she makes in this life. Each person must decide to receive eternal life in Jesus Christ -- or to reject Him. Everyone who is in Hades/Torment and who goes to hell for eternity -- can only blame himself or herself -- not God.
That is the heart of the discussion below: Who is to blame -- God or you?
Share this with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing the Word of God, let's keep reaching out to the unsaved and the unchurched, sharing with them the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- until He returns.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi to all my Forum Friends,
In the discussion which I began titled "Using 'OMG' And The 'F Word On Public Forums" -- our Forum Friend, HoldenMyOwn, told me, "Mr. Gray, Assuming you believe in the Bible... Your Bible states numerous times that I do not deserve to live and that I will burn in hell for all eternity. I say "OMG." And you say that "I" am the one that is being disrespectful? Does that honestly make sense to you?"
Holden, if the city, county, or state where you live has a law which says that driving 90 mph through a school zone is against their law -- and you do it anyway; who is to blame -- them for having and enforcing the law -- or you for breaking that law?
In the Old Testament, God gave the people of Israel certain laws -- and He gave them the punishment for breaking those laws. If a person still broke His laws; who is to blame for that person being punished -- God or that person?
God gave the Israelites the Ten Commandments and His Laws expanding upon those commandments. He knew that no one would be able to keep all of His commandments all the time. Why could they not keep those commandments? Because, when Adam fell into sin by disobeying God, from that moment on -- Adam and all his descendants have a sin nature. Man, by his very nature, is sinful.
But, on the other hand, God being a loving God and wanting all people to come to repentance, gave man a means of atoning for his sins, i.e., atonement for breaking the Law. He gave them animal sacrifices they could do to atone for their sins. These animal sacrifices were the precursor for the real "Once For All" Sacrifice which was to come -- Jesus Christ.
The Old Testament Jews had to keep offering animal sacrifices, over and over, to continually atone for their sins. When Jesus Christ came, He became the final Sacrifice, once for all. He was the Perfect Sacrifice -- and, in that respect, the Law had been fulfilled.
Once the Law had been fulfilled in Jesus Christ; He brought us into the dispensation of Grace, the era or period of Grace. We read in John 1:17, "For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ."
So, from the time Israel was given the Law at Mount Sinai, until the Day of Pentecost, the world was in the Biblical Dispensation of the Law and needed continual sacrifices to atone for their sins. On the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2) the Christian church, the body of believers, began with the coming of the Holy Spirit upon the 120 disciples in the Upper Room.
And, this was the initiation of the Dispensation of Grace. We will be in the Dispensation, or Period, of Grace until the Second Coming of Jesus Christ at the end of the seven year Tribulation. At this time, He will establish His Millennial Kingdom and thus begins the Kingdom Age, the kingdom of God on earth.
Now that Jesus Christ has brought us into the Dispensation of Grace -- by the Grace of God, through FAITH in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9) -- every person has an opportunity to be forgiven and to receive His "free gift" of salvation, eternal life in Christ.
So, Holden, when you tell me, "Your Bible states numerous times that I do not deserve to live and that I will burn in hell for all eternity."
No, the Bible tells us that if you continue to reject the "free gift" of salvation, which has already been purchased and "paid in full" by Jesus Christ on the cross -- YOU are condemning yourself to burn in hell for eternity.
Up until your last breath in your mortal body -- you can repent, i.e., turn from following the world and turn to following Jesus Christ. Once you have breathed that last breath in your mortal -- your eternal destination is set in concrete. At that point, absolutely nothing can change your eternal home.
If, before you die, you do repent and receive Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior -- you will spend eternity in the glorious presence of God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and all of your loved ones and friends who have died as believers.
If, when you die, you have not received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior -- you will spend eternity in the horrific, evil presence of Satan, eternity in hell.
The ONLY unforgivable sin is to die without having Jesus Christ in your heart, without a saving relationship with Him.
Up until that last breath -- there is always a chance to repent and follow Jesus Christ. But, the danger of waiting that long -- is that none of us know when that last breath will occur. We could be in the best of health one minute -- and dead the next.
When I was 25, I worked of Ramo Wooldridge (early version of TRW). One Friday we had a party and I became good friends with one of our programmers, a guy my age. He was excited because he was getting married the next week. His parents were out from the Mid West and all things were "Go" for their wedding. Sunday morning his parents went to his apartment and found him dead. He had died of a heart attack in his sleep. Absolutely no indication of any problems before.
Several years later, I worked for Scientific Data Systems in Santa Monica. One Monday morning I went to the tool room to get some new tools -- and the young man who worked there, 21 years old, was not in the tool cage. I was told that he had died of a heart attack over the weekend. Once again, no indication of any problems -- until they found him dead -- at 21 years old.
None of us have a guaranty of that next breath. So, Holden, and all of my Forum Friends who are not yet Christian believers -- do not gamble that you will always have more time. There is no guaranty. The only promise, the only guaranty, you have is: If you die as a believer, you WILL spend eternity with God -- and, if you die as a non-believer, you WILL spend eternity with Satan in hell.
So, why gamble with something so important? Take that "sure bet" and get right with God -- right now -- while there is still time.
Is this a "hell-fire and darnation" sermon? No, my Friends, just the truth -- shared in love. I want so much to meet you in heaven one day. Please do not disappoint me.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Each person, individually, either chooses salvation and eternal life in Jesus Christ -- or they choose eternity in hell with Satan.
Each person's eternal destination depends solely upon the decision he/she makes in this life. Each person must decide to receive eternal life in Jesus Christ -- or to reject Him. Everyone who is in Hades/Torment and who goes to hell for eternity -- can only blame himself or herself -- not God.
That is the heart of the discussion below: Who is to blame -- God or you?
Share this with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing the Word of God, let's keep reaching out to the unsaved and the unchurched, sharing with them the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- until He returns.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi to all my Forum Friends,
In the discussion which I began titled "Using 'OMG' And The 'F Word On Public Forums" -- our Forum Friend, HoldenMyOwn, told me, "Mr. Gray, Assuming you believe in the Bible... Your Bible states numerous times that I do not deserve to live and that I will burn in hell for all eternity. I say "OMG." And you say that "I" am the one that is being disrespectful? Does that honestly make sense to you?"
Holden, if the city, county, or state where you live has a law which says that driving 90 mph through a school zone is against their law -- and you do it anyway; who is to blame -- them for having and enforcing the law -- or you for breaking that law?
In the Old Testament, God gave the people of Israel certain laws -- and He gave them the punishment for breaking those laws. If a person still broke His laws; who is to blame for that person being punished -- God or that person?
God gave the Israelites the Ten Commandments and His Laws expanding upon those commandments. He knew that no one would be able to keep all of His commandments all the time. Why could they not keep those commandments? Because, when Adam fell into sin by disobeying God, from that moment on -- Adam and all his descendants have a sin nature. Man, by his very nature, is sinful.
But, on the other hand, God being a loving God and wanting all people to come to repentance, gave man a means of atoning for his sins, i.e., atonement for breaking the Law. He gave them animal sacrifices they could do to atone for their sins. These animal sacrifices were the precursor for the real "Once For All" Sacrifice which was to come -- Jesus Christ.
The Old Testament Jews had to keep offering animal sacrifices, over and over, to continually atone for their sins. When Jesus Christ came, He became the final Sacrifice, once for all. He was the Perfect Sacrifice -- and, in that respect, the Law had been fulfilled.
Once the Law had been fulfilled in Jesus Christ; He brought us into the dispensation of Grace, the era or period of Grace. We read in John 1:17, "For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ."
So, from the time Israel was given the Law at Mount Sinai, until the Day of Pentecost, the world was in the Biblical Dispensation of the Law and needed continual sacrifices to atone for their sins. On the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2) the Christian church, the body of believers, began with the coming of the Holy Spirit upon the 120 disciples in the Upper Room.
And, this was the initiation of the Dispensation of Grace. We will be in the Dispensation, or Period, of Grace until the Second Coming of Jesus Christ at the end of the seven year Tribulation. At this time, He will establish His Millennial Kingdom and thus begins the Kingdom Age, the kingdom of God on earth.
Now that Jesus Christ has brought us into the Dispensation of Grace -- by the Grace of God, through FAITH in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9) -- every person has an opportunity to be forgiven and to receive His "free gift" of salvation, eternal life in Christ.
So, Holden, when you tell me,
No, the Bible tells us that if you continue to reject the "free gift" of salvation, which has already been purchased and "paid in full" by Jesus Christ on the cross -- YOU are condemning yourself to burn in hell for eternity.
Up until your last breath in your mortal body -- you can repent, i.e., turn from following the world and turn to following Jesus Christ. Once you have breathed that last breath in your mortal -- your eternal destination is set in concrete. At that point, absolutely nothing can change your eternal home.
If, before you die, you do repent and receive Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior -- you will spend eternity in the glorious presence of God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and all of your loved ones and friends who have died as believers.
If, when you die, you have not received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior -- you will spend eternity in the horrific, evil presence of Satan, eternity in hell.
The ONLY unforgivable sin is to die without having Jesus Christ in your heart, without a saving relationship with Him.
Up until that last breath -- there is always a chance to repent and follow Jesus Christ. But, the danger of waiting that long -- is that none of us know when that last breath will occur. We could be in the best of health one minute -- and dead the next.
When I was 25, I worked of Ramo Wooldridge (early version of TRW). One Friday we had a party and I became good friends with one of our programmers, a guy my age. He was excited because he was getting married the next week. His parents were out from the Mid West and all things were "Go" for their wedding. Sunday morning his parents went to his apartment and found him dead. He had died of a heart attack in his sleep. Absolutely no indication of any problems before.
Several years later, I worked for Scientific Data Systems in Santa Monica. One Monday morning I went to the tool room to get some new tools -- and the young man who worked there, 21 years old, was not in the tool cage. I was told that he had died of a heart attack over the weekend. Once again, no indication of any problems -- until they found him dead -- at 21 years old.
None of us have a guaranty of that next breath. So, Holden, and all of my Forum Friends who are not yet Christian believers -- do not gamble that you will always have more time. There is no guaranty. The only promise, the only guaranty, you have is: If you die as a believer, you WILL spend eternity with God -- and, if you die as a non-believer, you WILL spend eternity with Satan in hell.
So, why gamble with something so important? Take that "sure bet" and get right with God -- right now -- while there is still time.
Is this a "hell-fire and darnation" sermon? No, my Friends, just the truth -- shared in love. I want so much to meet you in heaven one day. Please do not disappoint me.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Saturday, September 11, 2010
What Is Jesus Christ's Message To Us
In Luke 18:18-30?
In Luke 18:18-30?
Often, when sharing with others, in person or in writing, we often are asked questions and do not really know the motive behind those questions. Is this person a believer and truly seeking to better understand God's Word? Or, is this person a non-believer and only trying to lure us into a "Gotcha!" situation?
Regardless, the best way to respond is with the best Biblical answer we have, in Christian love, and with the intent of pointing this person toward Jesus Christ -- or helping a fellow believer become closer to Jesus Christ. I pray that I was effective in doing this in my response to my Times Daily Religion Forum Friend, Blue.
If you find this useful, please feel free to share it with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing the Word of God in love, keep sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- until He returns.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi to all my Forum Friends,
In the discussion begun by Blue titled "So Much Controversy, I Am Right, Your Wrong, Your Right, I Am Wrong" -- Blue and I have sort of a running dialogue. In an earlier post, Blue wrote,"Guess we won't know until we are gone, for me I believe in CHRIST, what have I got to lose, I will take my chances on HIM."
And, I replied, "Hi Blue, From your statement, it sounds more like you have bought a lottery ticket. Question: Do you have a saving, personal relationship with Jesus Christ?
To this, you respond,"Bill, you know I don't play the lottery and the casinos don't pay 98% more like 5% on them machines."
Blue, I am not sure I really understand your response. We both know that I was not talking about literally playing the Lottery -- but, that you seem to be approaching Jesus Christ and salvation as though you are just placing a "win, place, or show" race track bet on Him -- just in case. That is not the meaning of Ephesians 2:8-9, which tells us, "By grace you are saved through faith" -- faith in Jesus Christ -- not, "Let's place a bet and see what happens."
Next, you say,"Then again one who stands on a ball field does not make them a ball player, no more than one who attends a church makes them a Christian."
So true. One is not saved by attending church; nor is one saved because of the church he attends. We are saved ONLY by having a personal, saving relationship with Jesus Christ. And, that is why I asked you, "Do you have a saving, personal relationship with Jesus Christ?"
Then, you tell me,"I have read the Bible through and through from the beginning to the end seven times, read the Koran once, have not tried reading the Zoroastrian Bible yet."
Reading the Bible through a thousand times will not make a person a Christian believer; it will just give him strained eyes. And, yes, you may have read the Qur'an and other holy books from various world religions; but, that is not the point.
It all goes back to the question I asked you in my earlier post, "Do you have Him in your heart, spiritually -- not in your head, intellectually?"
The scholars who make up the Jesus Seminar intellectually know the Bible; most of them are professors, Bible scholars, and theologians. However, from the "fruit" or, more appropriately, "lack of fruit," we can see in their work -- personally, I would not want to be any of them when it is time to stand before Jesus Christ in judgment.
These so called scholars have publicly denied about 95% of what the Bible, the Written Word of God, tells us that Jesus said and did during His earthly ministry. Yes, these guys have intellectual knowledge of Biblical writings -- but, they have no spiritual knowledge of Jesus Christ.
Blue, do not be like those intellectual know-nothings. It is better to read and spiritually know God's Word once -- than to read it a thousand times and only know it only intellectually. That is why I asked you, "Do you have Him in your heart, spiritually -- not in your head, intellectually?"
Finally, you suggest,"Bill, go read St. Luke Chapter 18 verses 22-30."
The passage you are suggesting in Luke 18:22-30 is the story of the Rich Young Ruler:
Luke 18:18-21, Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not bear false witness,' 'Honor your father and your mother.'!" And he said, "All these things I have kept from my youth."
Luke 18:22-25, So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich. And when Jesus saw that he became very sorrowful, He said, "How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
Luke 18:26-27, And those who heard it said, "Who then can be saved?" But He said, "The things which are impossible with men are possible with God."
Luke 18:28-30, Then Peter said, "See, we have left all and followed You." So He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or parents or brothers or wife or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, who shall not receive many times more in this present time, and in the age to come eternal life."
Blue, I am not quite sure I understand what you are asking in your reference to this passage in Luke 18; but, I will make the assumption that you are implying that just because I write about Biblical issues and beliefs on the Religion Forum -- this does not make me a Christian believer or a Christ Follower. That is very true. I could write volumes about Biblical issues and beliefs -- and still not be a Christian believer.
But, praise God, that is not true. I am a Christ Follower, I am a Christian believer -- because, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8) -- I have believed and received (John 1:12) His "free gift" (Ephesians 2:8) of eternal life. And, I have His personal promise on this in John 6:47, "He who believes HAS eternal life" (also in John 3:16, 36, and John 5:24).
But, Blue, we do have proof of your premise in the Jesus Seminar and in stacks of scholarly books written by Bible professors, scholars, and theologians who only know Jesus Christ intellectually.
And, these writings can be harmful to new believers and to those just beginning to seek God. When I was a new believer, I read a book written by a Bible professor from the University of San Diego. Basically, his writings worked to tear down faith in much of the Old Testament writings. He wrote in his book why he believed Moses did not write the first five books of the Bible; he wrote why he believed that the book of Isaiah was written by multiple writers instead of by the single writer.
And, on and on, he systematically ripped apart the Word of God -- and, because he was a "Bible scholar" -- at that stage of my early Christian infancy -- I almost believed what he had written. At that stage of my Christian life -- that could have led me down an entirely different path; not to condemnation; but, to having no "peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1).
This is why I caution Friends -- when you buy and read a Christian book, even a Bible, make sure you know who wrote it, how and why it was written, and to the best of your knowledge, where those writers stand on conservative Christian theology. Let me give you a good example. About fifteen years ago, Dory and I had an older friend we were trying to get to come to church with us. Mary kept dragging her feet; so, I decided to buy her a good study Bible as a gift.
I went to a reliable Christian book store and began to browse the study Bibles. I found one which really looked good. But, then, I looked at the list of contributing writers who had written the study notes. It read like a Who's Who of the "Name It And Claim It" Prosperity Theology preaching crowd. Needless to say, I put that Bible away and found a more appropriate study Bible with a list of contributing study note writers whom I knew to be dependable and who, to the best of my knowledge, believe and teach a solid Christian theology.
But, Blue, to get back to the Scripture passage you recommend, Luke 18:22-30 (better yet, Luke 18:18:30). In this passage Jesus is approached by a rich young ruler (meaning that, in their culture, he was well versed in Old Testament Scripture) who asked what he had to do to gain salvation.
Jesus first referred him to the last six of the Ten Commandments, our relationship with others -- and the ruler declared that he had done this since childhood. Doubtful, since no one can truly live the Ten Commandment without failing -- but, that is not the point Jesus was leading toward.
Next, in Luke 18:22-25, Jesus leads the young ruler to the first four of the Ten Commandments, our relationship with God. Here Jesus tells him to sell and give away all his riches -- and become a Christ Follower. The young ruler could not do this -- for his worldly wealth was his god; just as many of our atheist and secular Friends makes science their god.
And, finally, when asked how a person could do this, Jesus tells them that, "With God all things are possible" (verse 27).
Basically, Jesus is not telling anyone that he must leave his family, leave his job, give away all of his material things to be a Christian believer. What He truly is telling us is that we must place Him first in our lives. What does this mean? Well, how many times have you wanted to watch the Super Bowl or another popular event -- but, it was on during your church worship service? Did you go to church?
How often have folks taken a better paying job, even though it meant having to work on Sundays -- just to gain more material things? It is one thing if your normal job requires you to work on Sunday and there is no way to reschedule. However, to voluntarily take a job that called for Sunday work -- just to make more money -- is not putting Jesus Christ first.
When a friend asks you to go to the beach on Sundays, or go to the Nascar races on Sunday, or to go fishing on Sunday -- where do YOU go on Sunday? This is the teaching that Jesus Christ was giving to the young ruler and to us; not that we have to leave our wife, children, family -- and run away to preach the Gospel.
Wherever we are, whatever we are doing, whoever we are with -- we can always put Jesus Christ first in our lives. And, if we do, we have His promise of greater rewards and eternal life "in the age to come" (Luke 18:30).
Blue, I pray that I have answered your question. If not, let's continue our dialogue.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Regardless, the best way to respond is with the best Biblical answer we have, in Christian love, and with the intent of pointing this person toward Jesus Christ -- or helping a fellow believer become closer to Jesus Christ. I pray that I was effective in doing this in my response to my Times Daily Religion Forum Friend, Blue.
If you find this useful, please feel free to share it with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing the Word of God in love, keep sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- until He returns.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
Hi to all my Forum Friends,
In the discussion begun by Blue titled "So Much Controversy, I Am Right, Your Wrong, Your Right, I Am Wrong" -- Blue and I have sort of a running dialogue. In an earlier post, Blue wrote,
And, I replied, "Hi Blue, From your statement, it sounds more like you have bought a lottery ticket. Question: Do you have a saving, personal relationship with Jesus Christ?
To this, you respond,
Blue, I am not sure I really understand your response. We both know that I was not talking about literally playing the Lottery -- but, that you seem to be approaching Jesus Christ and salvation as though you are just placing a "win, place, or show" race track bet on Him -- just in case. That is not the meaning of Ephesians 2:8-9, which tells us, "By grace you are saved through faith" -- faith in Jesus Christ -- not, "Let's place a bet and see what happens."
Next, you say,
So true. One is not saved by attending church; nor is one saved because of the church he attends. We are saved ONLY by having a personal, saving relationship with Jesus Christ. And, that is why I asked you, "Do you have a saving, personal relationship with Jesus Christ?"
Then, you tell me,
Reading the Bible through a thousand times will not make a person a Christian believer; it will just give him strained eyes. And, yes, you may have read the Qur'an and other holy books from various world religions; but, that is not the point.
It all goes back to the question I asked you in my earlier post, "Do you have Him in your heart, spiritually -- not in your head, intellectually?"
The scholars who make up the Jesus Seminar intellectually know the Bible; most of them are professors, Bible scholars, and theologians. However, from the "fruit" or, more appropriately, "lack of fruit," we can see in their work -- personally, I would not want to be any of them when it is time to stand before Jesus Christ in judgment.
These so called scholars have publicly denied about 95% of what the Bible, the Written Word of God, tells us that Jesus said and did during His earthly ministry. Yes, these guys have intellectual knowledge of Biblical writings -- but, they have no spiritual knowledge of Jesus Christ.
Blue, do not be like those intellectual know-nothings. It is better to read and spiritually know God's Word once -- than to read it a thousand times and only know it only intellectually. That is why I asked you, "Do you have Him in your heart, spiritually -- not in your head, intellectually?"
Finally, you suggest,
The passage you are suggesting in Luke 18:22-30 is the story of the Rich Young Ruler:
Luke 18:18-21, Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not bear false witness,' 'Honor your father and your mother.'!" And he said, "All these things I have kept from my youth."
Luke 18:22-25, So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich. And when Jesus saw that he became very sorrowful, He said, "How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
Luke 18:26-27, And those who heard it said, "Who then can be saved?" But He said, "The things which are impossible with men are possible with God."
Luke 18:28-30, Then Peter said, "See, we have left all and followed You." So He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or parents or brothers or wife or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, who shall not receive many times more in this present time, and in the age to come eternal life."
Blue, I am not quite sure I understand what you are asking in your reference to this passage in Luke 18; but, I will make the assumption that you are implying that just because I write about Biblical issues and beliefs on the Religion Forum -- this does not make me a Christian believer or a Christ Follower. That is very true. I could write volumes about Biblical issues and beliefs -- and still not be a Christian believer.
But, praise God, that is not true. I am a Christ Follower, I am a Christian believer -- because, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8) -- I have believed and received (John 1:12) His "free gift" (Ephesians 2:8) of eternal life. And, I have His personal promise on this in John 6:47, "He who believes HAS eternal life" (also in John 3:16, 36, and John 5:24).
But, Blue, we do have proof of your premise in the Jesus Seminar and in stacks of scholarly books written by Bible professors, scholars, and theologians who only know Jesus Christ intellectually.
And, these writings can be harmful to new believers and to those just beginning to seek God. When I was a new believer, I read a book written by a Bible professor from the University of San Diego. Basically, his writings worked to tear down faith in much of the Old Testament writings. He wrote in his book why he believed Moses did not write the first five books of the Bible; he wrote why he believed that the book of Isaiah was written by multiple writers instead of by the single writer.
And, on and on, he systematically ripped apart the Word of God -- and, because he was a "Bible scholar" -- at that stage of my early Christian infancy -- I almost believed what he had written. At that stage of my Christian life -- that could have led me down an entirely different path; not to condemnation; but, to having no "peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1).
This is why I caution Friends -- when you buy and read a Christian book, even a Bible, make sure you know who wrote it, how and why it was written, and to the best of your knowledge, where those writers stand on conservative Christian theology. Let me give you a good example. About fifteen years ago, Dory and I had an older friend we were trying to get to come to church with us. Mary kept dragging her feet; so, I decided to buy her a good study Bible as a gift.
I went to a reliable Christian book store and began to browse the study Bibles. I found one which really looked good. But, then, I looked at the list of contributing writers who had written the study notes. It read like a Who's Who of the "Name It And Claim It" Prosperity Theology preaching crowd. Needless to say, I put that Bible away and found a more appropriate study Bible with a list of contributing study note writers whom I knew to be dependable and who, to the best of my knowledge, believe and teach a solid Christian theology.
But, Blue, to get back to the Scripture passage you recommend, Luke 18:22-30 (better yet, Luke 18:18:30). In this passage Jesus is approached by a rich young ruler (meaning that, in their culture, he was well versed in Old Testament Scripture) who asked what he had to do to gain salvation.
Jesus first referred him to the last six of the Ten Commandments, our relationship with others -- and the ruler declared that he had done this since childhood. Doubtful, since no one can truly live the Ten Commandment without failing -- but, that is not the point Jesus was leading toward.
Next, in Luke 18:22-25, Jesus leads the young ruler to the first four of the Ten Commandments, our relationship with God. Here Jesus tells him to sell and give away all his riches -- and become a Christ Follower. The young ruler could not do this -- for his worldly wealth was his god; just as many of our atheist and secular Friends makes science their god.
And, finally, when asked how a person could do this, Jesus tells them that, "With God all things are possible" (verse 27).
Basically, Jesus is not telling anyone that he must leave his family, leave his job, give away all of his material things to be a Christian believer. What He truly is telling us is that we must place Him first in our lives. What does this mean? Well, how many times have you wanted to watch the Super Bowl or another popular event -- but, it was on during your church worship service? Did you go to church?
How often have folks taken a better paying job, even though it meant having to work on Sundays -- just to gain more material things? It is one thing if your normal job requires you to work on Sunday and there is no way to reschedule. However, to voluntarily take a job that called for Sunday work -- just to make more money -- is not putting Jesus Christ first.
When a friend asks you to go to the beach on Sundays, or go to the Nascar races on Sunday, or to go fishing on Sunday -- where do YOU go on Sunday? This is the teaching that Jesus Christ was giving to the young ruler and to us; not that we have to leave our wife, children, family -- and run away to preach the Gospel.
Wherever we are, whatever we are doing, whoever we are with -- we can always put Jesus Christ first in our lives. And, if we do, we have His promise of greater rewards and eternal life "in the age to come" (Luke 18:30).
Blue, I pray that I have answered your question. If not, let's continue our dialogue.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Friday, September 10, 2010
Using "OMG" And The "F" Word On Public Forums
In the past few weeks, my heart has been burdened. I am seeing a proliferation of people, mostly young, but some not so young, who I know to be Christian and who I know come from good Christian families - flagrantly posting two very offensive words/phrases on Facebook. What are these that I find so offensive? First, is the initials "OMG" and the second is the "F" word.
Why are these so offensive to me? Well, OMG is texting shorthand for "Oh, my God!" - which is taking God's name in vain. God takes His name and His glory very serious. That is why He wrote in the Bible, "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, . . ." (Exodus 20:7). So, just because it is abbreviated; makes it no less offensive - to God and to all Christian believers.
Creating slang versions of His name is the same, i.e., saying "Geez" or "Jeezus" - is just as bad as using, "Oh, Jesus!" as an exclamation.
Most of the people I have seen writing these have relatively good education - and I am sure that, if that person tries just a little, he/she can find a more appropriate word to use to vent their frustration, to highlight their point, or to make an exclamation.
And, what does surprise me the most - is that 95% of the people I have seen recently using these offensive words on public forums - are female.
When we, especially we Christian believers, post on public forums such as Facebook - we are representing all Christian believers; and we are representing our Lord. We are told in 2 Corinthians 5:20, "Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God."
When I read this Scripture verse, I am reminded of a story my good Friend and mentor, Pastor Sam Lacanienta, told us many years ago. When Pastor Sam was a young pastor in the Philippines, one Sunday a relative who also was the Philippine Ambassador to England, came to the worship service. After the service, Pastor Sam asked him what it meant to be an ambassador for his country. He told Pastor Sam, "My main job as an ambassador to England - is to not embarrass my nation while doing my job."
As Christian ambassadors for Christ when we write on public forums, and even when in private discussions - we should be very aware of not embarrassing our Lord.
For my young Friends, when you post such words on Facebook and other networking channels - keep in mind that you are representing first, your Lord; then, yourself - and, very important - you are representing YOUR FAMILY, your mom, your dad, your siblings - all your family.
So, please, I know that you do not purposely want to be offensive - and I know you do not want to embarrass your family or yourself. Therefore, when you write on Facebook or other networking channels - write your message as though you are writing it to your mother. Write messages you would not be ashamed to have your mother and father read. And, write messages which will glorify our Lord.
And, to my non-believing Friends, while you may or may not find these words offensive; keep in mind when you post on any Forum or network channel - that those things are offensive to we Christians. So, as a courtesy to us, please do try to find other words or phrases to use. For that, we thank you.
Thank you and God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
Monday, September 6, 2010
No Mosque Near Ground Zero!
It has been sixteen years since my mother went home to be with the Lord; yet, her memory is still very fresh and very precious to me. It has been nine years since the Massacre at the World Trade Center; yet, the memory of lost loved ones and of lost fellow Americans is still very fresh and very precious to the families and friends of all those lost on September 11, 2001 -- and to all Americans. These memories not only should be honored, they MUST be honored -- if America is to remain the beacon of hope for the poor and persecuted of the world.
The article below is not written from a Christian's point of view; for Charles Krauthammer of the Washington Post is not a Christian believer. It is written from the point of view of a sensitive, sincere, conservative American who tells us to honor our dead and to not allow their memory to be desecrated.
Read this article, form you own opinion, and then be sure to let your elected leaders, and Mayor Bloomberg, know how you feel.
The White House: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact
Find your Senators: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
Find your Congressman: http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
Mayor Bloomberg: http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/mayor.html
Please share this with ALL your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Just as we honor and protect the memory of Gettysburg, Pearl Harbor, Auschwitz, etc. -- let us continue to honor and protect the memory of those lost on September 11, 2001.
No Mosque Near Ground Zero!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WHY A MOSQUE DOES NOT BELONG NEAR GROUND ZERO
Charles Krauthammer, The Washington Post Writers Group
Published: August 17. 2010 4:00AM PST
http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100817/NEWS0107/8170332
A place is made sacred by a widespread belief that it was visited by the miraculous or the transcendent (Lourdes, the Temple Mount), by the presence there once of great nobility and sacrifice (Gettysburg), or by the blood of martyrs and the indescribable suffering of the innocent (Auschwitz).
When we speak of ground zero as hallowed ground, what we mean is that it belongs to those who suffered and died there — and that such ownership obliges us, the living, to preserve the dignity and memory of the place, never allowing it to be forgotten, trivialized, or misappropriated.
That's why Disney's early-'90s proposal to build an American history theme park near Manassas Battlefield was defeated by a broad coalition fearing vulgarization of the Civil War. (The coalition was wiser than me. At the time I obtusely saw little harm in the venture.) It's why the commercial viewing tower built right on the border of Gettysburg was taken down by the Park Service. It's why, while no one objects to Japanese cultural centers, the idea of putting one up at Pearl Harbor would be offensive.
And why Pope John Paul II ordered Carmelite nuns to leave the convent they had established at Auschwitz. He was in no way devaluing their heartfelt mission to pray for the souls of the dead. He was teaching them a lesson in respect: This is not your place, it belongs to others. However pure your voice, better to let silence reign.
Even New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who denounced opponents of the proposed 15-story mosque and Islamic center near ground zero as tramplers on religious freedom, asked the mosque organizers "to show some special sensitivity to the situation."
Yet, as columnist Rich Lowry pointedly noted, the government has no business telling churches how to conduct their business, shape their message, or show "special sensitivity" to anyone about anything. Bloomberg was thereby "inadvertently" conceding the claim of those he excoriates for opposing the mosque, namely, that ground zero is indeed unlike any other place and therefore unique criteria govern what can be done there.
Bloomberg's implication is clear: If the proposed mosque were controlled by "insensitive" Islamist radicals either excusing or celebrating 9/11, he would not support its construction.
But then, why not? By the mayor's own expansive view of religious freedom, by what right do we dictate the message of any mosque? Moreover, as a practical matter, there's no guarantee this couldn't happen in the future. Religious institutions in this country are autonomous. Who is to say the mosque won't one day hire an Anwar al-Aulaqi — spiritual mentor to the Fort Hood shooter and the Christmas Day bomber, and onetime imam at the Virginia mosque attended by two of the 9/11 terrorists?
An Aulaqi preaching in Virginia is a security problem. An Aulaqi preaching at ground zero is a sacrilege.
Location matters. Especially this location. Ground zero is the site of the greatest mass murder in American history — perpetrated by Muslims of a particular Islamist orthodoxy in whose cause they died and in whose name they killed.
Of course, that strain represents only a minority of Muslims. Islam is no more intrinsically Islamist than present-day Germany is Nazi — yet despite contemporary Germany's innocence, no German of good will would even think of proposing a German cultural center at, say, Treblinka.
Which makes you wonder about the good will behind Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf's proposal. This is a man who has called U.S. policy "an accessory to the crime" of 9/11 and, when recently asked whether Hamas is a terrorist organization, replied, "I'm not a politician. ... The issue of terrorism is a very complex question."
America is a free country where you can build whatever you want — but not anywhere. That's why we have zoning laws. No liquor store near a school, no strip malls where they offend local sensibilities, and, if your house doesn't meet community architectural codes, you cannot build at all.
These restrictions are for reasons of aesthetics. Others are for more profound reasons of common decency and respect for the sacred. No commercial tower over Gettysburg, no convent at Auschwitz — and no mosque at ground zero.
Build it anywhere but there.
The governor of New York offered to help find land to build the mosque elsewhere. A mosque really seeking to build bridges, Rauf's ostensible hope for the structure, would accept the offer.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Think about it! Pray about it! Then, do something, contact your leaders!
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
The article below is not written from a Christian's point of view; for Charles Krauthammer of the Washington Post is not a Christian believer. It is written from the point of view of a sensitive, sincere, conservative American who tells us to honor our dead and to not allow their memory to be desecrated.
Read this article, form you own opinion, and then be sure to let your elected leaders, and Mayor Bloomberg, know how you feel.
The White House: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact
Find your Senators: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
Find your Congressman: http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
Mayor Bloomberg: http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/mayor.html
Please share this with ALL your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Just as we honor and protect the memory of Gettysburg, Pearl Harbor, Auschwitz, etc. -- let us continue to honor and protect the memory of those lost on September 11, 2001.
No Mosque Near Ground Zero!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WHY A MOSQUE DOES NOT BELONG NEAR GROUND ZERO
Charles Krauthammer, The Washington Post Writers Group
Published: August 17. 2010 4:00AM PST
http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100817/NEWS0107/8170332
A place is made sacred by a widespread belief that it was visited by the miraculous or the transcendent (Lourdes, the Temple Mount), by the presence there once of great nobility and sacrifice (Gettysburg), or by the blood of martyrs and the indescribable suffering of the innocent (Auschwitz).
When we speak of ground zero as hallowed ground, what we mean is that it belongs to those who suffered and died there — and that such ownership obliges us, the living, to preserve the dignity and memory of the place, never allowing it to be forgotten, trivialized, or misappropriated.
That's why Disney's early-'90s proposal to build an American history theme park near Manassas Battlefield was defeated by a broad coalition fearing vulgarization of the Civil War. (The coalition was wiser than me. At the time I obtusely saw little harm in the venture.) It's why the commercial viewing tower built right on the border of Gettysburg was taken down by the Park Service. It's why, while no one objects to Japanese cultural centers, the idea of putting one up at Pearl Harbor would be offensive.
And why Pope John Paul II ordered Carmelite nuns to leave the convent they had established at Auschwitz. He was in no way devaluing their heartfelt mission to pray for the souls of the dead. He was teaching them a lesson in respect: This is not your place, it belongs to others. However pure your voice, better to let silence reign.
Even New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who denounced opponents of the proposed 15-story mosque and Islamic center near ground zero as tramplers on religious freedom, asked the mosque organizers "to show some special sensitivity to the situation."
Yet, as columnist Rich Lowry pointedly noted, the government has no business telling churches how to conduct their business, shape their message, or show "special sensitivity" to anyone about anything. Bloomberg was thereby "inadvertently" conceding the claim of those he excoriates for opposing the mosque, namely, that ground zero is indeed unlike any other place and therefore unique criteria govern what can be done there.
Bloomberg's implication is clear: If the proposed mosque were controlled by "insensitive" Islamist radicals either excusing or celebrating 9/11, he would not support its construction.
But then, why not? By the mayor's own expansive view of religious freedom, by what right do we dictate the message of any mosque? Moreover, as a practical matter, there's no guarantee this couldn't happen in the future. Religious institutions in this country are autonomous. Who is to say the mosque won't one day hire an Anwar al-Aulaqi — spiritual mentor to the Fort Hood shooter and the Christmas Day bomber, and onetime imam at the Virginia mosque attended by two of the 9/11 terrorists?
An Aulaqi preaching in Virginia is a security problem. An Aulaqi preaching at ground zero is a sacrilege.
Location matters. Especially this location. Ground zero is the site of the greatest mass murder in American history — perpetrated by Muslims of a particular Islamist orthodoxy in whose cause they died and in whose name they killed.
Of course, that strain represents only a minority of Muslims. Islam is no more intrinsically Islamist than present-day Germany is Nazi — yet despite contemporary Germany's innocence, no German of good will would even think of proposing a German cultural center at, say, Treblinka.
Which makes you wonder about the good will behind Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf's proposal. This is a man who has called U.S. policy "an accessory to the crime" of 9/11 and, when recently asked whether Hamas is a terrorist organization, replied, "I'm not a politician. ... The issue of terrorism is a very complex question."
America is a free country where you can build whatever you want — but not anywhere. That's why we have zoning laws. No liquor store near a school, no strip malls where they offend local sensibilities, and, if your house doesn't meet community architectural codes, you cannot build at all.
These restrictions are for reasons of aesthetics. Others are for more profound reasons of common decency and respect for the sacred. No commercial tower over Gettysburg, no convent at Auschwitz — and no mosque at ground zero.
Build it anywhere but there.
The governor of New York offered to help find land to build the mosque elsewhere. A mosque really seeking to build bridges, Rauf's ostensible hope for the structure, would accept the offer.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Think about it! Pray about it! Then, do something, contact your leaders!
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
Saturday, September 4, 2010
Creation Is The Foundation
"Dr. Henry M. Morris"
"Dr. Henry M. Morris"
Can you imagine loving someone so much that you would voluntarily submit yourself to being spit upon, tortured, beaten until your body and face are unrecognizable? And, then, having an 80 pound wooden beam strapped on your raw, bloody, beaten shoulders and having to carry this, on your torture-weakened body, about a mile to the top of a hot, dusty, rocky hilltop. There to lay upon the cross constructed from your 80 pound cross-beam -- while soldiers drove huge metal spikes through your wrists and feet -- and lift you upon that cross to hang, suffocating because your position on that cross made it very difficult to get enough air into your lungs to breath? Then, to hang there for many hours as life slowly seeped out of your body. Do you love anyone enough to voluntarily do this for him/her?
Jesus Christ did this for you and for me. Yet, many people, even good Christian believers, will dishonor that painful sacrifice -- by denying the Creation. Yes, the Creation of Jesus Christ in His pre-incarnation deity. We read, in John 1:3, "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." And, in Colossians 1:16, "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him."
Therefore, denying the Creation is to deny Jesus Christ!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
CREATION IS THE FOUNDATION
by Henry Morris, Ph.D. - (1918-2006)
Founder of the Institute for Creation Research
http://www.icr.org/article/5543/
It is high time that people in general, and Bible-believing Christians in particular, recognize the foundational significance of special creation. Creation is not merely a religious doctrine of only peripheral importance, as many people (even many evangelical Christians) seem to assume. Rather, it is the basis of all true science, of true american ideology, and of true Christianity.
Evolutionism, on the other hand, is actually a pseudo-science masquerading as science. As such, it has been acclaimed as the "scientific" foundation of atheism, humanism, communism, fascism, imperialism, racism, laissez-faire capitalism, and a variety of cultic, ethnic, and so-called liberal religions, by the respective founders and advocates of these systems. The creation/evolution issue is, in a very real sense, the most fundamental issue of all.
Foundation of True Science
Evolutionist presuppositions permeate the writings of modern scientists. Stanley D. Beck said, "No central scientific concept is more firmly established in our thinking, our methods, and our interpretations, than that of evolution." (1)
But it was not always thus. Beck himself, after defining and discussing the basic premises of science (that is, the existence of a real world, the capability of the human mind to understand the world, the principle of cause-and-effect, and the unified nature of the world), admitted that "each of these postulates had its origin in, or was consistent with, Christian theology." (2) That is, since the world was created by a divine Creator, and man was created in God's image, therefore nature makes orderly sense, man is able to decipher its operations, and true science becomes possible.
If the world is merely the chance product of random forces, on the other hand, then our human brains are meaningless jumbles of matter and electricity and science becomes nonsense. Consequently, the great founding fathers of true science (Kepler, Galileo, Pascal, Newton, Boyle, Brewster, Faraday, Linnaeus, Ray, Maxwell, Pasteur, Kelvin, etc.) were almost all creationists and believed they were glorifying God as they probed His works. Yet today such scientists would not even be considered scientists at all, because they believed in the primeval special creation of all things by God!
Foundation of American Ideology
Although not all of America's great founding fathers were Bible-believing Christians, almost all of them were true creationists, believing that God had created the world and man and all natural systems. The colonies had been settled and developed largely by Christian people who had come to this continent to gain freedom to believe and do what the Bible taught, and they all acknowledged that the foundational belief was belief in special creation. The historian Gilman Ostrander reminds us that:
"The American nation had been founded by intellectuals who had accepted a world view that was based upon Biblical authority as well as Newtonian science. They had assumed that God created the earth and all life upon it at the time of creation and had continued without change thereafter." (3)
Note that these great pioneers were intellectuals, not ignorant emotionalists. They laid great stress on education and science, founding many schools and colleges, in confidence that true learning in any field must be biblically governed. Christian historian Mary-Elaine Swanson said:
"In colonial times, the Bible was the primary tool in the educational process. In fact, according to Columbia University Professor Dr. Lawrence A. Cremin, the Bible was 'the single most primary source for the intellectual history of colonial America." From their knowledge of the Bible, a highly literate, creative people emerged.'" (4)
In a July 4 address in 1783, Dr. Elias Boudinot, then president of the Continental Congress, stated that his reason for advocating an annual Independence Day observance in America was the great precedent set by God Himself.
"No sooner had the great Creator of the heavens and the earth finished his almighty work, and pronounced all very good, but he set apart (not an anniversary, or one day in a year, but) one day in seven for the commemoration of his inimitable power in producing all things out of nothing." (5)
The fact of creation was also clearly implied several times in the Declaration of Independence itself ("endowed by our Creator," "created equal," "Nature's God," etc.). Attorney Marshall Foster has pointed out that at least the first 24 state constitutions recognized Christianity as the religion of their states. (6)
Yet today, the Bible, Christianity, and creationism have been banned from the schools of the states which had been founded to teach these very truths! All this has been done in the name of a gross distortion of the First Amendment. The amendment, which was intended to prevent the establishment of a particular national denomination (e.g., Catholic, Anglican), has instead been so twisted as to establish evolutionary humanism as the quasi-official religion of our public institutions.
The Foundation of True Religion
True religion must necessarily be based on worship of the world's true Creator. Other religions may deify great men, or man-made systems, or the world itself, but these are all merely variant forms of humanism as men "worship and serve the creature, rather than the Creator" (Romans 1:25). It is highly significant that all such religions and religious books begin with the creation, rather than the Creator, except the Bible!
That is, they all start with the universe already in existence, and then try to delineate how the primeval space/matter/time universe somehow developed into its present array of complex systems. This attribute characterizes both ancient paganism and modern humanism; these and all other atheistic, pantheistic, or polytheistic religions are merely various forms of evolutionism. Only in Genesis 1:1 (the foundation of all foundations!) is there a statement of the creation of the universe itself. Without this foundation, true religion is impossible.
Now although creation is the foundation, it is, of course, not the complete structure. Orthodox Judaism and Islam, like Christianity, believe in one eternal Creator, as revealed in Genesis 1:1, but they have rejected Him as Savior. In addition to the general revelation seen in the creation, God has explicitly revealed Himself through both His Word and His Son. Those who reject either or both, even though they believe in one God as primeval Creator and, like Christianity, are monotheistic, cannot know God in His fullness. He must be known as gracious Redeemer as well as omnipotent, but offended, Creator. Thus, biblical Christianity is the only truly creationist religion.
Foundation of Christology
By the same token, neither can one know Christ as He really is if one knows Him only as Redeemer. Faint-hearted Christians often justify their lukewarm attitude toward creation by saying that it is more important merely to "preach Christ." They forget that we are preaching "another Jesus" (2 Corinthians 11:4) if we do not preach Him as He really is, along with His complete work. The threefold aspect of the Person and Work of Jesus Christ is beautifully outlined in the majestic declaration of Colossians 1:16-20.
1. Past Work, Creation: "By him, were all things created," Colossians 1:16.
2. Present Work, Conservation: "By him, all things consist," Colossians 1:17.
3. Future Work, Consummation: "By him to reconcile all things," Colossians 1:20.
The great scope of this threefold work is "all things in heaven and in earth." Jesus Christ was Creator before He became the Sustainer (or Savior) and Reconciler, and the awful price of reconciliation, "the blood of His cross," is the measure of mankind's terrible offense against our Creator. That offense, furthermore, consists essentially of rejecting His Word, and thus denying that He is really the Creator.
One truly "preaches Christ" only when he first of all presents Him as the Almighty Creator, from whom man was alienated when he repudiated God's veracity in His Word. Only when this is first understood is it really meaningful to speak of God's forgiving grace and saving love, His incarnation and redemptive sacrifice as Son of man.
Foundation of Faith
The great message of Christianity is that "the just shall live by faith" (Hebrews 10:38), speaking of "them that believe, to the saving of the soul" (Hebrews 10:39). But exactly what is this living faith — this saving faith? Faith in the abstract is only naïve sentimentality; it must be faith in something and/or someone to have any substance.
The faith of which the apostle speaks, of course, is outlined in the verses immediately following, in the great "Faith Chapter," Hebrews 11. It is the faith of Abel, offering an acceptable sacrifice; it is Enoch's faith, pleasing God in obedient witness; it is Noah's faith, believing and acting on God's word; and Abraham's faith, stepping out on God's promises.
But, first of all, it is the foundational faith of Hebrews 11:3, the faith by which "we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." This affirmation clearly tells us that any meaningful faith for salvation and the Christian life must be founded, first of all, on faith in God's special creation of all things, not out of already existing materials but solely by His omnipotent Word!
Foundation of the Gospel
Many Christians, who either ignore or compromise the biblical doctrine of creation, have urged creationists just to "preach the Gospel -- not creation!" But this is impossible, because the saving Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is squarely founded on creation. The wonderful threefold work of Christ (creation, conservation, consummation) as outlined in Colossians 1:16-20 is identified as "the gospel" in Colossians 1:23. The very last reference to the Gospel in the Bible (Revelation 14:6-7) calls it the everlasting Gospel (thus, it could never have been any different) and its message is to "worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."
While it is surely true that the central focus of the Gospel is on the substitutionary atonement and victorious bodily resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), it also includes His coming kingdom (Matthew 4:23) and His great creation. Any other gospel is "another gospel" (Galatians 1:6) and is not the true Gospel.
Without the creation, a supposed gospel would have no foundation; without the promised consummation, it offers no hope; without the cross and empty tomb, it has no saving power. But when we preach the true Gospel, with the complete Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ as they really are, we build on a "sure foundation," can promise a "blessed hope," and have available "all power in heaven and earth" through Christ who, in all His fullness, is "with us, even to the end of the world" (Matthew
28:20).
References
1. Beck, S. D. 1982. Natural Science and Creationist Theology. Bioscience. 32: 738.
2. Ibid, 739.
3. Ostrander, G. M. 1971. The Evolutionary Outlook, 1875-1900. Clio, MI: Marston Press, 1.
4. Swanson, M-E. 1983. Teaching Children the Bible. Mayflower Institute Journal. 1: 5.
5. Address in New Jersey to the Society of Cincinnati, July 4, 1783.
6. Foster, M. 1983. Mayflower Institute Journal. 1:1.
Adapted from Dr. Morris' article "Creation Is the Foundation" in the December 1983 edition of Acts & Facts.
* Dr. Morris (1918-2006) was Founder of the Institute for Creation Research. Cite this article: Morris, H. 2010. Creation Is the Foundation. Acts & Facts. 39 (9): 20-22.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This article is from the monthly publication "Acts & Facts" published by The Institute Of Creation Research. Visit their web site to read other articles in the latest issue which are pertinent to our Christian faith: http://www.icr.org
Or visit this web site page to get a free subscription to this great Christian magazine: http://www.icr.org/subscriptions/
Another web site you will find useful in your Biblical studies is Answers In Genesis: http://www.answersingenesis.org
Share this with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep discussing God's Word and sharing the Gospel with all we know, in all the world, especially the unchurched and the unsaved -- until He returns.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
Jesus Christ did this for you and for me. Yet, many people, even good Christian believers, will dishonor that painful sacrifice -- by denying the Creation. Yes, the Creation of Jesus Christ in His pre-incarnation deity. We read, in John 1:3, "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." And, in Colossians 1:16, "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him."
Therefore, denying the Creation is to deny Jesus Christ!
by Henry Morris, Ph.D. - (1918-2006)
Founder of the Institute for Creation Research
http://www.icr.org/article/5543/
It is high time that people in general, and Bible-believing Christians in particular, recognize the foundational significance of special creation. Creation is not merely a religious doctrine of only peripheral importance, as many people (even many evangelical Christians) seem to assume. Rather, it is the basis of all true science, of true american ideology, and of true Christianity.
Evolutionism, on the other hand, is actually a pseudo-science masquerading as science. As such, it has been acclaimed as the "scientific" foundation of atheism, humanism, communism, fascism, imperialism, racism, laissez-faire capitalism, and a variety of cultic, ethnic, and so-called liberal religions, by the respective founders and advocates of these systems. The creation/evolution issue is, in a very real sense, the most fundamental issue of all.
Foundation of True Science
Evolutionist presuppositions permeate the writings of modern scientists. Stanley D. Beck said, "No central scientific concept is more firmly established in our thinking, our methods, and our interpretations, than that of evolution." (1)
But it was not always thus. Beck himself, after defining and discussing the basic premises of science (that is, the existence of a real world, the capability of the human mind to understand the world, the principle of cause-and-effect, and the unified nature of the world), admitted that "each of these postulates had its origin in, or was consistent with, Christian theology." (2) That is, since the world was created by a divine Creator, and man was created in God's image, therefore nature makes orderly sense, man is able to decipher its operations, and true science becomes possible.
If the world is merely the chance product of random forces, on the other hand, then our human brains are meaningless jumbles of matter and electricity and science becomes nonsense. Consequently, the great founding fathers of true science (Kepler, Galileo, Pascal, Newton, Boyle, Brewster, Faraday, Linnaeus, Ray, Maxwell, Pasteur, Kelvin, etc.) were almost all creationists and believed they were glorifying God as they probed His works. Yet today such scientists would not even be considered scientists at all, because they believed in the primeval special creation of all things by God!
Foundation of American Ideology
Although not all of America's great founding fathers were Bible-believing Christians, almost all of them were true creationists, believing that God had created the world and man and all natural systems. The colonies had been settled and developed largely by Christian people who had come to this continent to gain freedom to believe and do what the Bible taught, and they all acknowledged that the foundational belief was belief in special creation. The historian Gilman Ostrander reminds us that:
Note that these great pioneers were intellectuals, not ignorant emotionalists. They laid great stress on education and science, founding many schools and colleges, in confidence that true learning in any field must be biblically governed. Christian historian Mary-Elaine Swanson said:
In a July 4 address in 1783, Dr. Elias Boudinot, then president of the Continental Congress, stated that his reason for advocating an annual Independence Day observance in America was the great precedent set by God Himself.
The fact of creation was also clearly implied several times in the Declaration of Independence itself ("endowed by our Creator," "created equal," "Nature's God," etc.). Attorney Marshall Foster has pointed out that at least the first 24 state constitutions recognized Christianity as the religion of their states. (6)
Yet today, the Bible, Christianity, and creationism have been banned from the schools of the states which had been founded to teach these very truths! All this has been done in the name of a gross distortion of the First Amendment. The amendment, which was intended to prevent the establishment of a particular national denomination (e.g., Catholic, Anglican), has instead been so twisted as to establish evolutionary humanism as the quasi-official religion of our public institutions.
The Foundation of True Religion
True religion must necessarily be based on worship of the world's true Creator. Other religions may deify great men, or man-made systems, or the world itself, but these are all merely variant forms of humanism as men "worship and serve the creature, rather than the Creator" (Romans 1:25). It is highly significant that all such religions and religious books begin with the creation, rather than the Creator, except the Bible!
That is, they all start with the universe already in existence, and then try to delineate how the primeval space/matter/time universe somehow developed into its present array of complex systems. This attribute characterizes both ancient paganism and modern humanism; these and all other atheistic, pantheistic, or polytheistic religions are merely various forms of evolutionism. Only in Genesis 1:1 (the foundation of all foundations!) is there a statement of the creation of the universe itself. Without this foundation, true religion is impossible.
Now although creation is the foundation, it is, of course, not the complete structure. Orthodox Judaism and Islam, like Christianity, believe in one eternal Creator, as revealed in Genesis 1:1, but they have rejected Him as Savior. In addition to the general revelation seen in the creation, God has explicitly revealed Himself through both His Word and His Son. Those who reject either or both, even though they believe in one God as primeval Creator and, like Christianity, are monotheistic, cannot know God in His fullness. He must be known as gracious Redeemer as well as omnipotent, but offended, Creator. Thus, biblical Christianity is the only truly creationist religion.
Foundation of Christology
By the same token, neither can one know Christ as He really is if one knows Him only as Redeemer. Faint-hearted Christians often justify their lukewarm attitude toward creation by saying that it is more important merely to "preach Christ." They forget that we are preaching "another Jesus" (2 Corinthians 11:4) if we do not preach Him as He really is, along with His complete work. The threefold aspect of the Person and Work of Jesus Christ is beautifully outlined in the majestic declaration of Colossians 1:16-20.
1. Past Work, Creation: "By him, were all things created," Colossians 1:16.
2. Present Work, Conservation: "By him, all things consist," Colossians 1:17.
3. Future Work, Consummation: "By him to reconcile all things," Colossians 1:20.
The great scope of this threefold work is "all things in heaven and in earth." Jesus Christ was Creator before He became the Sustainer (or Savior) and Reconciler, and the awful price of reconciliation, "the blood of His cross," is the measure of mankind's terrible offense against our Creator. That offense, furthermore, consists essentially of rejecting His Word, and thus denying that He is really the Creator.
One truly "preaches Christ" only when he first of all presents Him as the Almighty Creator, from whom man was alienated when he repudiated God's veracity in His Word. Only when this is first understood is it really meaningful to speak of God's forgiving grace and saving love, His incarnation and redemptive sacrifice as Son of man.
Foundation of Faith
The great message of Christianity is that "the just shall live by faith" (Hebrews 10:38), speaking of "them that believe, to the saving of the soul" (Hebrews 10:39). But exactly what is this living faith — this saving faith? Faith in the abstract is only naïve sentimentality; it must be faith in something and/or someone to have any substance.
The faith of which the apostle speaks, of course, is outlined in the verses immediately following, in the great "Faith Chapter," Hebrews 11. It is the faith of Abel, offering an acceptable sacrifice; it is Enoch's faith, pleasing God in obedient witness; it is Noah's faith, believing and acting on God's word; and Abraham's faith, stepping out on God's promises.
But, first of all, it is the foundational faith of Hebrews 11:3, the faith by which "we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." This affirmation clearly tells us that any meaningful faith for salvation and the Christian life must be founded, first of all, on faith in God's special creation of all things, not out of already existing materials but solely by His omnipotent Word!
Foundation of the Gospel
Many Christians, who either ignore or compromise the biblical doctrine of creation, have urged creationists just to "preach the Gospel -- not creation!" But this is impossible, because the saving Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is squarely founded on creation. The wonderful threefold work of Christ (creation, conservation, consummation) as outlined in Colossians 1:16-20 is identified as "the gospel" in Colossians 1:23. The very last reference to the Gospel in the Bible (Revelation 14:6-7) calls it the everlasting Gospel (thus, it could never have been any different) and its message is to "worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."
While it is surely true that the central focus of the Gospel is on the substitutionary atonement and victorious bodily resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), it also includes His coming kingdom (Matthew 4:23) and His great creation. Any other gospel is "another gospel" (Galatians 1:6) and is not the true Gospel.
Without the creation, a supposed gospel would have no foundation; without the promised consummation, it offers no hope; without the cross and empty tomb, it has no saving power. But when we preach the true Gospel, with the complete Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ as they really are, we build on a "sure foundation," can promise a "blessed hope," and have available "all power in heaven and earth" through Christ who, in all His fullness, is "with us, even to the end of the world" (Matthew
28:20).
References
1. Beck, S. D. 1982. Natural Science and Creationist Theology. Bioscience. 32: 738.
2. Ibid, 739.
3. Ostrander, G. M. 1971. The Evolutionary Outlook, 1875-1900. Clio, MI: Marston Press, 1.
4. Swanson, M-E. 1983. Teaching Children the Bible. Mayflower Institute Journal. 1: 5.
5. Address in New Jersey to the Society of Cincinnati, July 4, 1783.
6. Foster, M. 1983. Mayflower Institute Journal. 1:1.
Adapted from Dr. Morris' article "Creation Is the Foundation" in the December 1983 edition of Acts & Facts.
* Dr. Morris (1918-2006) was Founder of the Institute for Creation Research. Cite this article: Morris, H. 2010. Creation Is the Foundation. Acts & Facts. 39 (9): 20-22.
This article is from the monthly publication "Acts & Facts" published by The Institute Of Creation Research. Visit their web site to read other articles in the latest issue which are pertinent to our Christian faith: http://www.icr.org
Or visit this web site page to get a free subscription to this great Christian magazine: http://www.icr.org/subscriptions/
Another web site you will find useful in your Biblical studies is Answers In Genesis: http://www.answersingenesis.org
Share this with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep discussing God's Word and sharing the Gospel with all we know, in all the world, especially the unchurched and the unsaved -- until He returns.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
Monday, August 23, 2010
A Forum Friend Accuses
Pastor Chuck Smith Of Heresy!
Pastor Chuck Smith Of Heresy!
With the "information explosion" we have witnessed on the internet over the past 10 to 15 years -- we must also keep in mind that, jut because it is written on the internet -- does not make it true. It is not the Gospel -- unless you are reading the Bible online.
Much of what we read online is the opinion of another person -- and could true or it could be based upon false statements and a desire to get even with someone, or to best another, or it could be written by someone who does not have full knowledge of the subject or the issue. So, with all we read on the internet -- the best advise is to remember that just because it is published online does NOT make it true.
The dialogue below is a great example of that. Someone wanting to defame Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa has, it appears, purposely twisted what Pastor Chuck wrote in a book -- actually changing words -- to make his writing appear to say something different.
And, my Forum Friend, Beter, because I often quote Pastor Chuck's commentaries -- has tried to use this same false writing on the internet to declare Pastor Chuck a heretic. I suppose Beter feels that, if he can prove Pastor Chuck (my frequent reference source on Biblical issues) a heretic -- that, in turn, makes everything I write heretical.
Whenever we are sharing the Word of God with the unbelieving world, we will always have such burdens. We just have to look past the ones throwing stones -- to those standing behind who may read and who may be ready to allow seeds of salvation to be planted in fertile soil.
We stand on the words of our Lord and Savior, "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you" (John 15:18). So, the rocks they throw are not bullets of destruction -- but, rather, they are Badges of Honor.
Grab your Full Armor of God (Ephesians 6:10-20) and join in the battle! Start by sharing this with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- until He returns.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In the discussion titled "The Holy Way" -- our Friend, Beter, takes a broadside swipe at Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa, California. And, this from a person whose tells us he/she is "Better Than You" -- i.e., the posting name BeternU. Personally, I do not think I am better than anyone else. I may be more blessed because I am a Christian believer -- but, I certainly am not "better than you." Only Jesus Christ can claim that title -- for He, indeed, is better than any of us.
Beter wrote, "Bill Gray -- I got yer Pastor Chuck Smith/Calvary Temple right heah! The man is a flaming false prophet. Per Wickipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvary_Chapel:
Return of Christ in 1981: During the late 1970s and early 1980s, Chuck Smith wrote and published a prophetic timeline that predicted the Rapture would occur in 1981"
Beter, my Friend, normally, this is something I would not say to another Forum member -- but, my Friend, what you have written is a complete lie. And, the Wikipedia source you show states this disclaimer: "The neutrality of this article is disputed."
While that article does not disclose the name of the author; it could be one or more of a number of different people who have been asked to leave Calvary Chapel. An example is John Wimber who began to turn heavily toward Pentecostalism and got involved in such heretical teachings as Holy Laughter and other non-Biblical teachings. Pastor Chuck asked him to leave Calvary Chapel and Wimber started the Vineyard Churches, some of which are extreme Pentecostal.
Calvary Chapel has over 1100 churches worldwide, it is non-denominational, and calls itself a "movement" and not a denomination. Yet, if one of the churches which wears the Calvary Chapel name begins to teach beliefs other than those held by Calvary Chapel -- they will be asked to leave, just as was John Wimber. Last year, in their Annual Pastor's Conference, Pastor Chuck presented a White Paper in which he denounced the Emergent Church movement.
He asked all Calvary Chapel churches that choose to continue to follow the teachings of the Emergent Church movement to please remove Calvary Chapel from their name and to leave the Calvary Chapel movement. I applaud Pastor Chuck for this move to protect the integrity of Calvary Chapel and to assure that the teachings of all Calvary Chapel churches adhere to the previously established Statement of Faith of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.
By the way, I have absolutely no problem with the Statement of Beliefs of Calvary Chapel -- which mirrors my own personal Statement of Beliefs.
Yes, in leading a church movement for 45 years, a man will upset some and will make enemies. Obviously the person, or persons, who wrote this anonymous Wikipedia article is among that group. As I have always said -- if a pastor is not making some people uncomfortable with his messages and with his teachings -- he is obviously teaching a watered down, "feel good" Gospel. Pastor Chuck teaches the Gospel as it should be taught -- and, if that makes you uncomfortable -- you best look within yourself.
Now, Beter, let's look at the source of the statement you copy/pasted about Pastor Chuck Smith. This is the source, taken from a book written by Pastor Chuck Smith, that the anonymous author(s) used to write this untrue accusation:
This is from the References given for the Wikipedia article:
End Times: A Report on Future Survival, Chuck Smith, 1978 Smith, Chuck (1978). End Times: A Report on Future Survival. Maranatha House Publishers. pp. 35. ISBN 0-89337-011-8. "Jesus taught us that the generation which sees the 'budding of the fig tree,' the birth of the nation israel, will be the generation that sees the Lord's return. I believe that the generation of 1948 is the last generation. Since a generation of judgment is forty years and the Tribulation period lasts seven years, I believe the Lord could come back for His Church any time before the Tribulation starts, which would mean anytime before 1981. (1948+40+7=1981)"
In this article footnote you can see that Pastor Chuck has clearly written, "I believe the Lord could come back for His Church. . ." Notice that his says, "COULD come back" -- NOT "WOULD come back" -- as the anonymous writer(s) accused.
Beter, the statement you copy/pasted states: During the late 1970s and early 1980s, Chuck Smith wrote and published a prophetic timeline that predicted the Rapture would occur in 1981 Obviously the author of this article ignored his own footnote and changed "could" to "would." Are you willing to believe anything else this person will write?
Could Jesus Christ return and Rapture His church today? Absolutely! The return of Jesus Christ to rapture His church is imminent, meaning that it could happen at any moment -- or it may not happen for many years. We are told in Matthew 24:36-37, "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah."
And, we are warned, in Matthew 24:44 and in Luke 12:40 to be ready, "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will."
So, yes, Jesus Christ could come today. He could come before I have a chance to post this writing. If you get to read this writing on the Religion Forum; then He has not come back yet. The Rapture has not occurred.
Or, He may not come in my lifetime. All I can do is to be ready to greet Him when He does come for all believers at the Rapture.
What Pastor Chuck Smith wrote in 1978, that He could come before 1981 -- was absolutely correct. The main prophecy gating His return is the nation of Israel being reestablished as a nation in their homeland -- which occurred in 1948. Like Pastor Chuck, I, too, believe the time may be near.
I have heard him refute people who teach a specific time for the return of Christ to Rapture His church. But, at no time have I ever heard him predict or give a date for the Rapture. That would be anathema to Pastor Chuck -- for he believes the Bible.
Pastor Chuck has and will say that many of the signs for the return are evident today -- starting with the return of the nation Israel to their homeland. He will quote many prophecies which show signs of the coming Rapture. But, he has never played the "this is the day" game.
I have never attended Calvary Chapel; but, I have followed the teachings of Pastor Chuck Smith for the last 23 years -- and I have NEVER heard him teach anything such as you, or these writers, have accused him. There have been times when I have disagreed with his teaching; but, that does not mean that he is a heretical teacher as you would have people believe. As a matter of fact, I do not know any pastor or Bible teacher that I have not disagreed with at one time or another. That does not make them or me wrong -- it just makes us good Bereans.
Beter, I am not sure what hang-up you have; but, this time, my Friend, you have written and copy/pasted an accusation which is totally false. I am just curious. You come on the Religion Forum and blast the writings of everyone who professes faith in Jesus Christ -- are you a Christian believer? If so, what church (not the specific church, but the denomination, affiliation, etc.) do you attend? What Bible teacher do YOU trust to teach the truth?
Let's talk about Calvary Chapel and Pastor Chuck Smith. Pastor Chuck came to Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa in 1965. At that time they had only about 20 members. Since then, Calvary Chapel has grown to over 1100 churches worldwide; many of them large enough in membership to be called megachurches. Why has Calvary Chapel had such phenomenal growth?
From the beginning, Pastor Chuck has always used expository Bible teaching, i.e., teaching through the Bible starting from Genesis 1:1 and teaching, verse by verse, all the way to Revelation 22:21. And, then, he starts all over again -- teaching through the Bible. Occasionally, he will take a break for a topical message -- but, the normal messages are expository. In this way, their teachings, and their theology, builds upon the complete Bible; not just chosen verses or passages.
As a comparison, Dr. Robert Schuller started the Garden Grove Community Church (now the Crystal Cathedral) the same year, 1965. What has he built? A huge glass cathedral dedicated to the memory of Robert Schuller? Since 1965, to the best of my knowledge, Robert Schuller's church has planted only two other churches, one for his son and one for his close associate, Dr. Leetsma -- both in affluent Orange County.
While in the same time period Pastor Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel has planted over 1100 churches worldwide. And, most of the Calvary Chapels have Christian schools for the K-12 level -- and, many have Bible Colleges for the adult believers and those preparing for a life of ministry.
Why the great difference between these two ministries, both begun in adjacent Orange County communities, the same year, 1965 -- but, with drastically different results?
My personal belief is that it is because Robert Schuller is Reform, i.e., Calvinist -- and apparently their approach is to build bigger and prettier cathedrals, but, with no emphasis on evangelism. I spent several years in Schuller's church and never, not even once, did I hear or see an altar call being given. Why? Because the Calvinists teach that God chose, before the Creation, who will be saved and who will be lost to hell. Thus, no real reason for an altar call or evangelism, and, no real growth except among the affluent of Orange County who want to hear "feel good" sermons. Three churches in 45 years!
On the other hand, Pastor Chuck Smith's whole ministry is built upon evangelism -- sharing the Word of God with the unsaved and the unchurched of the world. He truly follows the teachings of Jesus Christ (Matthew 28:19-20, Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15) to take the Gospel to the whole world. And, Calvary Chapel has seen extraordinary spiritual and numerical growth over the years. Over 1100 churches in 45 years!
Calvary Chapel has spawned other church groups, i.e., Horizon Christian Fellowship out of San Diego which has over 100 churches in its group -- and Harvest Christian Fellowship in Riverside, California. We are all familiar with the Harvest Crusades which happen in cities all over America where millions have heard the Gospel taught by Pastor Greg Laurie. All of this started from the ministry of Pastor Chuck Smith who came to a church of 20 people in 1965. I would say that this man is indeed doing the work of God in sharing the Gospel to the world.
To learn more about Calvary Chapel and what they teach, visit this web site: http://www.calvarychapelcostamesa.com/
Visit Pastor Chuck's personal ministry web site: The Word For Today - http://www.twft.com/
Or, visit the web site of KWVE Christian Radio (107.9 FM): http://www.kwve.com/ You can listen to live broadcasts. I believe you will find the Pastor's Perspective Radio Talk Show very interesting. It is on from 3:00 PM to 4:00 PM, California time -- and you can call in on an 800 number to ask questions of Pastor Chuck and other pastors.
And, if you would like to find a Calvary Chapel near you, visit this web site: http://www.calvarychapel.com/
Beter, my Friend, you might do yourself a big favor if you will listen more closely to what Calvary Chapel and Pastor Chuck Smith teach. It could make an eternal difference in your life.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Much of what we read online is the opinion of another person -- and could true or it could be based upon false statements and a desire to get even with someone, or to best another, or it could be written by someone who does not have full knowledge of the subject or the issue. So, with all we read on the internet -- the best advise is to remember that just because it is published online does NOT make it true.
The dialogue below is a great example of that. Someone wanting to defame Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa has, it appears, purposely twisted what Pastor Chuck wrote in a book -- actually changing words -- to make his writing appear to say something different.
And, my Forum Friend, Beter, because I often quote Pastor Chuck's commentaries -- has tried to use this same false writing on the internet to declare Pastor Chuck a heretic. I suppose Beter feels that, if he can prove Pastor Chuck (my frequent reference source on Biblical issues) a heretic -- that, in turn, makes everything I write heretical.
Whenever we are sharing the Word of God with the unbelieving world, we will always have such burdens. We just have to look past the ones throwing stones -- to those standing behind who may read and who may be ready to allow seeds of salvation to be planted in fertile soil.
We stand on the words of our Lord and Savior, "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you" (John 15:18). So, the rocks they throw are not bullets of destruction -- but, rather, they are Badges of Honor.
Grab your Full Armor of God (Ephesians 6:10-20) and join in the battle! Start by sharing this with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- until He returns.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
In the discussion titled "The Holy Way" -- our Friend, Beter, takes a broadside swipe at Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa, California. And, this from a person whose tells us he/she is "Better Than You" -- i.e., the posting name BeternU. Personally, I do not think I am better than anyone else. I may be more blessed because I am a Christian believer -- but, I certainly am not "better than you." Only Jesus Christ can claim that title -- for He, indeed, is better than any of us.
Beter wrote, "Bill Gray -- I got yer Pastor Chuck Smith/Calvary Temple right heah! The man is a flaming false prophet. Per Wickipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvary_Chapel:
Return of Christ in 1981: During the late 1970s and early 1980s, Chuck Smith wrote and published a prophetic timeline that predicted the Rapture would occur in 1981"
Beter, my Friend, normally, this is something I would not say to another Forum member -- but, my Friend, what you have written is a complete lie. And, the Wikipedia source you show states this disclaimer: "The neutrality of this article is disputed."
While that article does not disclose the name of the author; it could be one or more of a number of different people who have been asked to leave Calvary Chapel. An example is John Wimber who began to turn heavily toward Pentecostalism and got involved in such heretical teachings as Holy Laughter and other non-Biblical teachings. Pastor Chuck asked him to leave Calvary Chapel and Wimber started the Vineyard Churches, some of which are extreme Pentecostal.
Calvary Chapel has over 1100 churches worldwide, it is non-denominational, and calls itself a "movement" and not a denomination. Yet, if one of the churches which wears the Calvary Chapel name begins to teach beliefs other than those held by Calvary Chapel -- they will be asked to leave, just as was John Wimber. Last year, in their Annual Pastor's Conference, Pastor Chuck presented a White Paper in which he denounced the Emergent Church movement.
He asked all Calvary Chapel churches that choose to continue to follow the teachings of the Emergent Church movement to please remove Calvary Chapel from their name and to leave the Calvary Chapel movement. I applaud Pastor Chuck for this move to protect the integrity of Calvary Chapel and to assure that the teachings of all Calvary Chapel churches adhere to the previously established Statement of Faith of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.
By the way, I have absolutely no problem with the Statement of Beliefs of Calvary Chapel -- which mirrors my own personal Statement of Beliefs.
Yes, in leading a church movement for 45 years, a man will upset some and will make enemies. Obviously the person, or persons, who wrote this anonymous Wikipedia article is among that group. As I have always said -- if a pastor is not making some people uncomfortable with his messages and with his teachings -- he is obviously teaching a watered down, "feel good" Gospel. Pastor Chuck teaches the Gospel as it should be taught -- and, if that makes you uncomfortable -- you best look within yourself.
Now, Beter, let's look at the source of the statement you copy/pasted about Pastor Chuck Smith. This is the source, taken from a book written by Pastor Chuck Smith, that the anonymous author(s) used to write this untrue accusation:
This is from the References given for the Wikipedia article:
End Times: A Report on Future Survival, Chuck Smith, 1978 Smith, Chuck (1978). End Times: A Report on Future Survival. Maranatha House Publishers. pp. 35. ISBN 0-89337-011-8. "Jesus taught us that the generation which sees the 'budding of the fig tree,' the birth of the nation israel, will be the generation that sees the Lord's return. I believe that the generation of 1948 is the last generation. Since a generation of judgment is forty years and the Tribulation period lasts seven years, I believe the Lord could come back for His Church any time before the Tribulation starts, which would mean anytime before 1981. (1948+40+7=1981)"
In this article footnote you can see that Pastor Chuck has clearly written, "I believe the Lord could come back for His Church. . ." Notice that his says, "COULD come back" -- NOT "WOULD come back" -- as the anonymous writer(s) accused.
Beter, the statement you copy/pasted states: During the late 1970s and early 1980s, Chuck Smith wrote and published a prophetic timeline that predicted the Rapture would occur in 1981 Obviously the author of this article ignored his own footnote and changed "could" to "would." Are you willing to believe anything else this person will write?
Could Jesus Christ return and Rapture His church today? Absolutely! The return of Jesus Christ to rapture His church is imminent, meaning that it could happen at any moment -- or it may not happen for many years. We are told in Matthew 24:36-37, "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah."
And, we are warned, in Matthew 24:44 and in Luke 12:40 to be ready, "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will."
So, yes, Jesus Christ could come today. He could come before I have a chance to post this writing. If you get to read this writing on the Religion Forum; then He has not come back yet. The Rapture has not occurred.
Or, He may not come in my lifetime. All I can do is to be ready to greet Him when He does come for all believers at the Rapture.
What Pastor Chuck Smith wrote in 1978, that He could come before 1981 -- was absolutely correct. The main prophecy gating His return is the nation of Israel being reestablished as a nation in their homeland -- which occurred in 1948. Like Pastor Chuck, I, too, believe the time may be near.
I have heard him refute people who teach a specific time for the return of Christ to Rapture His church. But, at no time have I ever heard him predict or give a date for the Rapture. That would be anathema to Pastor Chuck -- for he believes the Bible.
Pastor Chuck has and will say that many of the signs for the return are evident today -- starting with the return of the nation Israel to their homeland. He will quote many prophecies which show signs of the coming Rapture. But, he has never played the "this is the day" game.
I have never attended Calvary Chapel; but, I have followed the teachings of Pastor Chuck Smith for the last 23 years -- and I have NEVER heard him teach anything such as you, or these writers, have accused him. There have been times when I have disagreed with his teaching; but, that does not mean that he is a heretical teacher as you would have people believe. As a matter of fact, I do not know any pastor or Bible teacher that I have not disagreed with at one time or another. That does not make them or me wrong -- it just makes us good Bereans.
Beter, I am not sure what hang-up you have; but, this time, my Friend, you have written and copy/pasted an accusation which is totally false. I am just curious. You come on the Religion Forum and blast the writings of everyone who professes faith in Jesus Christ -- are you a Christian believer? If so, what church (not the specific church, but the denomination, affiliation, etc.) do you attend? What Bible teacher do YOU trust to teach the truth?
Let's talk about Calvary Chapel and Pastor Chuck Smith. Pastor Chuck came to Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa in 1965. At that time they had only about 20 members. Since then, Calvary Chapel has grown to over 1100 churches worldwide; many of them large enough in membership to be called megachurches. Why has Calvary Chapel had such phenomenal growth?
From the beginning, Pastor Chuck has always used expository Bible teaching, i.e., teaching through the Bible starting from Genesis 1:1 and teaching, verse by verse, all the way to Revelation 22:21. And, then, he starts all over again -- teaching through the Bible. Occasionally, he will take a break for a topical message -- but, the normal messages are expository. In this way, their teachings, and their theology, builds upon the complete Bible; not just chosen verses or passages.
As a comparison, Dr. Robert Schuller started the Garden Grove Community Church (now the Crystal Cathedral) the same year, 1965. What has he built? A huge glass cathedral dedicated to the memory of Robert Schuller? Since 1965, to the best of my knowledge, Robert Schuller's church has planted only two other churches, one for his son and one for his close associate, Dr. Leetsma -- both in affluent Orange County.
While in the same time period Pastor Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel has planted over 1100 churches worldwide. And, most of the Calvary Chapels have Christian schools for the K-12 level -- and, many have Bible Colleges for the adult believers and those preparing for a life of ministry.
Why the great difference between these two ministries, both begun in adjacent Orange County communities, the same year, 1965 -- but, with drastically different results?
My personal belief is that it is because Robert Schuller is Reform, i.e., Calvinist -- and apparently their approach is to build bigger and prettier cathedrals, but, with no emphasis on evangelism. I spent several years in Schuller's church and never, not even once, did I hear or see an altar call being given. Why? Because the Calvinists teach that God chose, before the Creation, who will be saved and who will be lost to hell. Thus, no real reason for an altar call or evangelism, and, no real growth except among the affluent of Orange County who want to hear "feel good" sermons. Three churches in 45 years!
On the other hand, Pastor Chuck Smith's whole ministry is built upon evangelism -- sharing the Word of God with the unsaved and the unchurched of the world. He truly follows the teachings of Jesus Christ (Matthew 28:19-20, Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15) to take the Gospel to the whole world. And, Calvary Chapel has seen extraordinary spiritual and numerical growth over the years. Over 1100 churches in 45 years!
Calvary Chapel has spawned other church groups, i.e., Horizon Christian Fellowship out of San Diego which has over 100 churches in its group -- and Harvest Christian Fellowship in Riverside, California. We are all familiar with the Harvest Crusades which happen in cities all over America where millions have heard the Gospel taught by Pastor Greg Laurie. All of this started from the ministry of Pastor Chuck Smith who came to a church of 20 people in 1965. I would say that this man is indeed doing the work of God in sharing the Gospel to the world.
To learn more about Calvary Chapel and what they teach, visit this web site: http://www.calvarychapelcostamesa.com/
Visit Pastor Chuck's personal ministry web site: The Word For Today - http://www.twft.com/
Or, visit the web site of KWVE Christian Radio (107.9 FM): http://www.kwve.com/ You can listen to live broadcasts. I believe you will find the Pastor's Perspective Radio Talk Show very interesting. It is on from 3:00 PM to 4:00 PM, California time -- and you can call in on an 800 number to ask questions of Pastor Chuck and other pastors.
And, if you would like to find a Calvary Chapel near you, visit this web site: http://www.calvarychapel.com/
Beter, my Friend, you might do yourself a big favor if you will listen more closely to what Calvary Chapel and Pastor Chuck Smith teach. It could make an eternal difference in your life.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Tuesday, August 3, 2010
Is Baptism A Commandment -
Is Baptism A Requirement For Salvation?
Is Baptism A Requirement For Salvation?
Often in discussions with our more legalistic brothers and sisters, and even with many non-believers, the question of baptism and the implied salvation through baptism is raised. How do we respond? We respond like we do with all theologies which are not 100% Bible based. Many people, many churches, build their theology upon one or more Scripture verses or passages -- even though there are other Scripture verses which contradict that teaching. Should we ignore parts of Scripture which contradicts our chosen theology -- or should we rework our theology to make it agree with ALL Scripture? Of course, you and I know that no theology, no Bible interpretation, is valid if even one Scripture verse contradicts that teaching.
This is why I have tried to show all sides of the "salvation through baptism" question. And, I have not arrived at any new understanding; but, have confirmed the belief that I have long had and confirmed the theology taught in our church.
I pray this dialogue is edifying for you and that you will choose to share it with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, with all the world -- until He returns.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi to my Forum Friends,
In the discussion I began titled, "What Happens When A Believer Dies?" I wrote, "Until that last breath, a person can repent, ask Jesus Christ into his/her heart, and receive salvation through Jesus Christ. However, once a person has breathed his/her last breath in this mortal body -- his/her eternal fate is set in concrete."
And, my Forum Friend, TheMax, wrote, "Whatever happened to make you forget the words of Peter when he was asked "men and brethren what shall we do?" He didn't say let Christ come into your heart. He replied "Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (salvation).
I responded, "Hi Max, Jesus Himself tells us, "He who believes HAS eternal life" (John 6:47). I will take His promise as valid."
To be more complete, I should have added, "You will notice that Peter tells the people in Jerusalem to 'Repent' -- which means turn from following the world and turn to follow Jesus Christ. When a person 'repents and believes' he is saved, he is a Christian believer. Then, Peter continues, '. . .be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"
Some may see this as Peter saying that repenting and baptism are the requirements for salvation, for receiving the Holy Spirit -- and I can see how one could interpret this Scripture verse in that way. However, when we stands this verse beside other Scripture passages, which we must do to have a complete theology, such as John 6:47, John 3:16, etc., which tell us that "he" and "whoever" believes HAS eternal life -- we must conclude that Peter meant that repenting and believing is the criterion for salvation, for receiving the Holy Spirit. And, then, one, in an act of obedience, follows Jesus Christ in baptism as a declaration to the world that this person HAS become a Christian believer.
Renowned Bible scholar and commentator, Matthew Henry, writes in his commentary on Acts 2:
"(1). . .Repent, repent; change your mind, change your way; admit an after-thought.'' (2.) Be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ; that is, "firmly believe the doctrine of Christ, and submit to his grace and government; and make an open solemn profession of this, and come under an engagement to abide by it, by submitting to the ordinance of baptism;. . ."
And, in the Jamieson, Fausset & Brown Commentary on Acts 2, David Brown writes:
"Acts 2:38. Repent -- The word denotes change of mind, and here includes the reception of the Gospel as the proper issue of that revolution of mind which they were then undergoing. (Be) baptized . . . for the remission of sins -- as the visible seal of that remission."
Max, you tells me, "If you believe, then keep his commandments. All of them, not just the ones that seem right to you."
And, I respond, "Hi Max, We do not live under the Law, for the Law could not save anyone (Romans 2:20). We have passed from the Law and, since the Day of Pentecost, have lived in the Dispensation of Grace. 'For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast' (Ephesians 2:8-9)."
You reply, "Bill, I didn't say anything about keeping the old Law. When Christ died on the cross, the veil of the temple was split, meaning we no longer have to go through a high priest to speak with the Lord."
I respond, "Then, it is not clear what you did mean -- if not the Law? There is no Old Law and New Law. There was the Law given to Moses in the Old Testament for the people of Israel. And, there is the Dispensation of Grace brought to us through Jesus Christ. And, that is what I was addressing. If you had something else in mind; please tell me."
You answer, "I said commandments. Is not baptism a commandment? Or are you going to pick and choose the ones that suit you?
Okay, now I see the misunderstanding. You are relating baptism to the Ten Commandments. No, baptism is not a commandment; it is an ordinance. Jesus Christ left us two ordinances, i.e., instructions, that we should do in remembrance of Him until He returns: baptism and communion.
After we have believed, been sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13, 4:30), and have become saved, born again Christians by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- we are then instructed to follow Him in baptism showing to the world that we are His disciples and that we are Christ Followers.
And, we are instructed to remember Him spiritually through communion, in Luke 22:19-20, "And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me." And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."
The full Ten Commandments are spelled out by God in Exodus 20:
Exodus 20:3, "You shall have no other gods before Me."
Exodus 20:4, "You shall not make for yourself an idol. . ."
Exodus 20:7, "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. . ."
Exodus 20:8, "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."
Exodus 20:12, "Honor your father and your mother. . ."
Exodus 20:13, "You shall not murder."
Exodus 20:14, "You shall not commit adultery.
Exodus 20:15, "You shall not steal."
Exodus 20:16, "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."
Exodus 20:17, "You shall not covet. . ."
Then, in Matthew 22, Jesus Christ addressed the Pharisees and condensed the Ten Commandments into two:
The first four of the Ten Commandments, our responsibility toward God, are found in Mat 22:37-38, ". . .You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment."
And, the last six of the Ten Commandments, our responsibility toward our fellow man, are found in Matthew 22:39, "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"
Then, Jesus summarized in Matthew 22:40, "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
These commandments all Christians are to honor and to follow; yet, we are not and cannot be saved through the Ten Commandments (Romans 3:20), nor through the ordinances of baptism and communion.
So, how are we saved? Good question. We are told in Romans 4:3-5, "For what does the Scripture say? 'Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.' Now to him who works the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly his faith is accounted for righteousness."
Hebrews, chapter 11, also tells us of Abraham and many other Old Testament saints who were counted as righteous, i.e., attributed the righteousness of Jesus Christ -- through believing God.
You see, if we rely upon our own righteousness, our own works -- we are doomed to hell; for our righteousness is like filthy rags in the eyes of God (Isaiah 64:6). Yet, when we have the righteousness of Jesus Christ attributed, i.e., imputed, to us -- God does not see us, but, instead sees the righteousness of Jesus Christ. We are told in Isaiah 1:18-19 that, although our sins are as scarlet -- once we repent and believe, we are "as white as snow, like pure white wool."
The Old Testament saints had this righteousness because they believed God and believed in their promised Messiah.
And, under the Dispensation of Grace, i.e., the New Testament, given us by Jesus Christ -- we read in Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."
So, Max, you see that all people, Old Testament saints and New Testament saints, have salvation ONLY through Jesus Christ, the Messiah. He is the only WAY to God the Father (John 14:6) -- for all mankind. In Him we have eternal life, and His promise of eternal life in the presence of God. Without Him, there is only the promise of eternal destruction, eternal condemnation in the presence of Satan.
This is why I urge ALL of our Forum Friends to choose wisely; for the "free will" choice we make in this mortal life, before that last breath -- WILL determine our eternal destination: heaven or hell. There are no other choices.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
This is why I have tried to show all sides of the "salvation through baptism" question. And, I have not arrived at any new understanding; but, have confirmed the belief that I have long had and confirmed the theology taught in our church.
I pray this dialogue is edifying for you and that you will choose to share it with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, with all the world -- until He returns.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
Hi to my Forum Friends,
In the discussion I began titled, "What Happens When A Believer Dies?" I wrote, "Until that last breath, a person can repent, ask Jesus Christ into his/her heart, and receive salvation through Jesus Christ. However, once a person has breathed his/her last breath in this mortal body -- his/her eternal fate is set in concrete."
And, my Forum Friend, TheMax, wrote, "Whatever happened to make you forget the words of Peter when he was asked "men and brethren what shall we do?" He didn't say let Christ come into your heart. He replied "Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (salvation).
I responded, "Hi Max, Jesus Himself tells us, "He who believes HAS eternal life" (John 6:47). I will take His promise as valid."
To be more complete, I should have added, "You will notice that Peter tells the people in Jerusalem to 'Repent' -- which means turn from following the world and turn to follow Jesus Christ. When a person 'repents and believes' he is saved, he is a Christian believer. Then, Peter continues, '. . .be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"
Some may see this as Peter saying that repenting and baptism are the requirements for salvation, for receiving the Holy Spirit -- and I can see how one could interpret this Scripture verse in that way. However, when we stands this verse beside other Scripture passages, which we must do to have a complete theology, such as John 6:47, John 3:16, etc., which tell us that "he" and "whoever" believes HAS eternal life -- we must conclude that Peter meant that repenting and believing is the criterion for salvation, for receiving the Holy Spirit. And, then, one, in an act of obedience, follows Jesus Christ in baptism as a declaration to the world that this person HAS become a Christian believer.
Renowned Bible scholar and commentator, Matthew Henry, writes in his commentary on Acts 2:
"(1). . .Repent, repent; change your mind, change your way; admit an after-thought.'' (2.) Be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ; that is, "firmly believe the doctrine of Christ, and submit to his grace and government; and make an open solemn profession of this, and come under an engagement to abide by it, by submitting to the ordinance of baptism;. . ."
And, in the Jamieson, Fausset & Brown Commentary on Acts 2, David Brown writes:
"Acts 2:38. Repent -- The word denotes change of mind, and here includes the reception of the Gospel as the proper issue of that revolution of mind which they were then undergoing. (Be) baptized . . . for the remission of sins -- as the visible seal of that remission."
Max, you tells me, "If you believe, then keep his commandments. All of them, not just the ones that seem right to you."
And, I respond, "Hi Max, We do not live under the Law, for the Law could not save anyone (Romans 2:20). We have passed from the Law and, since the Day of Pentecost, have lived in the Dispensation of Grace. 'For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast' (Ephesians 2:8-9)."
You reply, "Bill, I didn't say anything about keeping the old Law. When Christ died on the cross, the veil of the temple was split, meaning we no longer have to go through a high priest to speak with the Lord."
I respond, "Then, it is not clear what you did mean -- if not the Law? There is no Old Law and New Law. There was the Law given to Moses in the Old Testament for the people of Israel. And, there is the Dispensation of Grace brought to us through Jesus Christ. And, that is what I was addressing. If you had something else in mind; please tell me."
You answer, "I said commandments. Is not baptism a commandment? Or are you going to pick and choose the ones that suit you?
Okay, now I see the misunderstanding. You are relating baptism to the Ten Commandments. No, baptism is not a commandment; it is an ordinance. Jesus Christ left us two ordinances, i.e., instructions, that we should do in remembrance of Him until He returns: baptism and communion.
After we have believed, been sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13, 4:30), and have become saved, born again Christians by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- we are then instructed to follow Him in baptism showing to the world that we are His disciples and that we are Christ Followers.
And, we are instructed to remember Him spiritually through communion, in Luke 22:19-20, "And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me." And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."
The full Ten Commandments are spelled out by God in Exodus 20:
Exodus 20:3, "You shall have no other gods before Me."
Exodus 20:4, "You shall not make for yourself an idol. . ."
Exodus 20:7, "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. . ."
Exodus 20:8, "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."
Exodus 20:12, "Honor your father and your mother. . ."
Exodus 20:13, "You shall not murder."
Exodus 20:14, "You shall not commit adultery.
Exodus 20:15, "You shall not steal."
Exodus 20:16, "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."
Exodus 20:17, "You shall not covet. . ."
Then, in Matthew 22, Jesus Christ addressed the Pharisees and condensed the Ten Commandments into two:
The first four of the Ten Commandments, our responsibility toward God, are found in Mat 22:37-38, ". . .You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment."
And, the last six of the Ten Commandments, our responsibility toward our fellow man, are found in Matthew 22:39, "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"
Then, Jesus summarized in Matthew 22:40, "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
These commandments all Christians are to honor and to follow; yet, we are not and cannot be saved through the Ten Commandments (Romans 3:20), nor through the ordinances of baptism and communion.
So, how are we saved? Good question. We are told in Romans 4:3-5, "For what does the Scripture say? 'Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.' Now to him who works the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly his faith is accounted for righteousness."
Hebrews, chapter 11, also tells us of Abraham and many other Old Testament saints who were counted as righteous, i.e., attributed the righteousness of Jesus Christ -- through believing God.
You see, if we rely upon our own righteousness, our own works -- we are doomed to hell; for our righteousness is like filthy rags in the eyes of God (Isaiah 64:6). Yet, when we have the righteousness of Jesus Christ attributed, i.e., imputed, to us -- God does not see us, but, instead sees the righteousness of Jesus Christ. We are told in Isaiah 1:18-19 that, although our sins are as scarlet -- once we repent and believe, we are "as white as snow, like pure white wool."
The Old Testament saints had this righteousness because they believed God and believed in their promised Messiah.
And, under the Dispensation of Grace, i.e., the New Testament, given us by Jesus Christ -- we read in Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."
So, Max, you see that all people, Old Testament saints and New Testament saints, have salvation ONLY through Jesus Christ, the Messiah. He is the only WAY to God the Father (John 14:6) -- for all mankind. In Him we have eternal life, and His promise of eternal life in the presence of God. Without Him, there is only the promise of eternal destruction, eternal condemnation in the presence of Satan.
This is why I urge ALL of our Forum Friends to choose wisely; for the "free will" choice we make in this mortal life, before that last breath -- WILL determine our eternal destination: heaven or hell. There are no other choices.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Saturday, July 31, 2010
What Happens When A Believer Dies?
My Religion Forum Friend, B50, recently told us that she is a New Age/Christian/Wiccan -- so, it is not surprising that she is confused. The New Age and Wiccan world religions are polar opposites of Christianity. A person accepting the teachings of these world religions most likely will not be mature in Biblical knowledge. Otherwise, he/she could not be lured into those religions.
However, her question has given me an opportunity to explain Biblically what happens at death -- and the difference between a believer dying now and a believer who lives to see the Rapture occur.
If you find this useful, please feel free to share this dialogue with your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Let's keep sharing the Gospel with the world -- and by sharing, help all of us grow spiritually and, daily, become more mature in our knowledge of God's Word. Until He returns; share the Gospel.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill Gray
Hi to my Forum Friends,
In an earlier discussion titled "VPLee123....Thank you!" -- I wrote, "We believe, from the Bible, that when a believer dies -- he/she is immediately in the presence of Jesus Christ and God the Father."
And, B50 asks me, "I thought you had to wait for the Rapture, Bill. So heaven immediately or not?"
Good question! Glad you asked. True, for all Christian believers, upon death, the next moment they are alive in the presence of Jesus Christ -- more alive than ever before. Our mortal bodies are in the grave; but, our spirit, the true essence of all people -- will have a great "Home Coming" celebration -- and all Christ believing loved ones and friends who have gone on before -- will be standing with Jesus Christ -- to greet us -- to welcome us home!
Yes, Jesus Christ is coming one day, a day no one knows. This is why we call it imminent, for it could happen at any moment -- or it might not happen for many years. We just have to be ready (Luke 12:40). His coming will be in the air, in the clouds, and He will call all Christian believers, His church, His Bride, to join Him in the clouds (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18). This is the Rapture.
For all believers who have died in Christ, i.e, died being believers in Jesus Christ -- their mortal bodies will be in the grave; but their spirits are with the Lord. For all non-believers, their mortal bodies are in the grave; but, their spirits are in the Torment side of Hades -- where they will stay until they are resurrected to stand before Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment.
These Christian believers whose bodies are in the grave will rise, be resurrected, first. Then, a split second later, we who are still alive will join them in the air to meet our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. At this time, we all will receive our immortal bodies and will be like Him -- not divine, but in our immortal bodies (1 John 3:2).
Now this is a point where many people, believers and non-believers, will ask, "Bill, that works for those who died and were buried. But, what about people who were cremated? What about people who were eaten by animals, by sharks, etc. -- their bodies no longer exist. Their bodies are ashes or part of animal or fish waste. How can they be raised from the grave to be Raptured?"
That is a very valid question. Yet, we are told in Luke 12:6-7, "Are not five sparrows sold for two cents? Yet not one of them is forgotten before God. Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows."
God created us; God knows every hair on our head (for some, just a memory); God knows every cell which makes up our bodies -- for He created those cells, those bodies -- so, I have no doubt that, in His omniscience, in His omnipotence -- He will have no trouble bringing together all the required elements to create our immortals bodies.
Jesus, when He ascended into heaven, was in His immortal body with the nail scars and the sword scar still evident. After His resurrection, but, before His ascension -- he was in His immortal body which closely resembled His older mortal body. This is why He could eat with His apostles after His resurrection (John 21:12-15). We believers will have such an immortal body also at the Rapture (1 John 3:2).
So, to clarify: For believers who have already died, their bodies are in the grave -- but, their essence, their spirit, is in heaven. When Christ returns to Rapture His church -- their bodies will rise from the grave, or wherever, and will become immortal bodies, once again reunited with their essence, their spirit.
Then, a brief moment later, we believers who are still alive when Christ returns in the air to Rapture His church will rise -- we will not taste death -- but, will go to meet Him in the air to gain our immortal bodies.
Is this described in the Bible? Yes, in 1 Corinthians 15:49-54 we learn that we, our bodies, will be changed in the twinkling of an eye -- pretty quick -- from mortal to immortal, i.e., our glorified bodies. We we be in our glorified bodies just like Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:49-54,
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory."
And, in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, we are told that we believers who are still alive, will be CAUGHT UP to meet Christ, our Lord, in the air. In the Greek language, the English phrase "will be caught up" is the word "harpazo" meaning: "to snatch out or away."
When the Pope commissioned Jerome to translate the Bible into Latin, the language favored by the Roman Catholic church, the Greek word "harpazo" became the Latin word "rapiemur" -- from which we get the English transliteration RAPTURE. So, yes, the word "Rapture" -- the prophecy of the Rapture -- and the description of the Rapture -- are all in the Bible.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18,
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."
Yes, B50, we have His, Jesus Christ's, promises of eternal life for all who believe (Matthew 19:29, John 3:15, John 3:16, John 3:36, John 4:14, John 5:24, John 6:40, John 6:47, John 6:54, John 10:28).
And, the apostle John writes to us in John 20:30-31, "Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name."
So, yes, eternal life in Christ is assured, by Jesus Christ Himself, for ALL who, by grace, through faith, believe in Him and receive His "free gift" of eternal life. Based upon His promises, we have eternal security in Him -- and whether we die before He comes to Rapture His church, or whether we are still alive -- ALL believers will be Raptured to be with Him forever.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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