Let's Talk About Heaven! - Response And Rebuttal

Recently I wrote a blog titled "Let's Talk About Heaven" and posted it on my Friends Ministry eNewsletter, on our Bill & Dory Gray Christian Ministries blog site, and on Facebook.  The next day I received the response below from a man who has been on my mail list for quite a while.  I am not sure why he has chosen now to respond in this manner.  He tells me he is a Christian believer and I have no reason to doubt that he is indeed a Christian brother. 

His social media tag line tells me he is:  "Husband, Father, Artist, Democrat, Voter."  If I were to apply such a tag line to myself, mine would have to read:  "Husband, Father, Grandfather, Christian Writer, Conservative Republican, Voter."  I certainly have no problem with his tag line, nor with applying such a tag line to myself, even though I do not.  But I pray the descriptive tag line is not why he has asked to be removed from my mail list after all these years.

First I want to respond to his comments to make sure we are speaking on a level playing field.  Then if he still want to be removed from my Friends Ministry eNewsletter mail list, I will sadly comply with his wish.  Below is his response and my rebuttal:

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Subject:	RE: LET'S TALK ABOUT HEAVEN!
Date:	Wed, 28 Jul 2021 18:59:17 +0000
To:	Bill Gray <billdory@pacbell.net> From: A Long Time eNewsletter Friend

My Friend:  Please remove me from your (e)-mailing lists.  The sadly-composed, narrowly presented, WASP messages you spew are nothing about the Jesus I know.

Bill's Response:  You tell me I am a WASP.  I presume by that you mean "White Anglo-Saxon Protestant" or "White (Caucasian) American Protestant."  If so, I am guilty.  I am a Caucasian male, like you.  I am an American from the South, like you.  I am a Conservative Baptist-flavored believer, a Dispensationalist who believes in the PreTribulation Rapture of the church and a PreMillennial Second Coming of Jesus Christ. 

So I guess you could call me a WASP, however I prefer to just be called a Conservative (religiously and politically) Christian believer who believes that the Christian Bible - the inspired, inerrant, literal, written Word of God - is the sole and final arbiter, the ultimate authority, for the Christian faith.

My Friend:  Do you, as seemingly reflected in the sharing of the message below, plan on loosing your relationships or idea of “family”?  If one is not to have a marital companion, then what is so special about family relationships that they are preserved as well?  You suggest a mindless relationship with your jesus who will expect nothing less than total devotion to him and him only.  Forget about any true redemption.  What you speak of is total mind-control, not true agape love. 

Bill's Response:  My Friend, I am confused by your comment above.  Do you believe there will be marriage in heaven?  (see Matthew 22:30)  

You ask, "What is so special about family?"  Yet from Genesis to Revelation, Scripture shows that family is very important to God, to Jesus Christ.  Exodus 20:12, "Honor your father and mother. . ."  

If you examine the Ten Commandments, you will see that the first four commandments show your relationship with God, the last six commandments show your relationship with family and neighbors.   So family and neighbors must be important to God - six of the Ten Commandments relate to family and neighbors.  How is that attitude to be considered "total mind control" when it comes from the Bible?

My Friend:  You, as well, seem to speak of a jesus that still remembers our sins.  Remembrance of sin has a suggestion of it being held onto by your jesus, to be used for leverage toward those who remain behind in this world.  My Jesus gave himself, sacrificing himself for my past, present, and future sins and they ENDED there forgiven, in total, on the cross.  Do keep in mind that the sins of man, my sins, were forgiven in total, there and then.  I do not have to worry about my Jesus suddenly remembering them, to even need to keep them secret from those in your heaven.

Bill's Response:  I agree with you that Jesus' death on the cross atoned for all sins, past, present, and future, for all who will believe - offering each believer total forgiveness and eternal life.  However, as long as we are in this mortal body - we will still sin. 

As the very true saying tells us, "In this life, we are merely 'forgiven sinners."  Romans 3:23 tells us that, "we ALL sin and fall short of the glory of God."  Notice that this Scripture verse does NOT say, "we all USED to sin and fall short of the glory of God" - but it assures us that, "we ALL STILL sin and fall short of the glory of God."

First John 1:8 tells us, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."   My Friend, are you saying you do not sin now in this mortal life because you are a believer?  Romans 3:22 tells us that the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us in this life.  Not that we are righteous, but that He is righteous and that His holy righteousness covers us like an umbrella, hiding our sins from the eyes of God. Yet even we believers are not sinless, only forgiven.

My Friend:  There are no “secrets” in Heaven.  Do you think, as well, of when in your heaven, not remembering someone as White?  POC?  Poor?  Hungry?  Different?  Having “Other” beliefs?  This is an opportunity to joyfully REMEMBER, not simply forget, our former life, along with our forgiven sins, to joyfully REMEMBER just how totally we were blessed, as a variety of people and beliefs, to have a Jesus that does not seek to keep secrets, keep us apart from others or our loved ones.  Express that love and forgiveness NOW, here in this world.  Do not wait on getting to Heaven.  What a missed opportunity to share this concept of love, forgiveness, and blessing here on this world.  We will take it, that love, blessing, that forgiveness to Heaven with us.

Bill's Response:  My Friend, first let me assure you that in this life, when my mother was alive, I did show her great love.  But now that she is in heaven, I cannot do the things I did before, I can only hold her memory and our love in my heart.  And one day I will be reunited with her, my brother, and all my other loved ones and brethren in heaven - a glorious heavenly Family Reunion.  Yes, I believe we will still be "family" in heaven.  Scripture only tells us that we will not "marry" in heaven - but it says nothing about negating our love for family and special friends whom we knew on earth.

Regarding your question of White or People of Color, or earth or in heaven - God is color blind - and He expects no less from us.  In this mortal life and when we believers get to heaven, He sees only one race, the human race.  

We read in Scripture: Galatians 3:28, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."  AND in Colossians 3:11, "Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all." 

My Friend, do YOU see "people of color" when you go to church - or do you only see Christian brethren?

You mention people who are "different" who have "other beliefs" - I am not quite sure what you mean by that.  When you say "different" are you referring to race, ethnicity, culture, or religious beliefs?  What is "different" to you?  Christ only sees believers, those yet to believe, and sadly, those who will never believe (Matthew 7:13-14).  You and I need to concentrate on "those yet to believe" and guide them toward becoming believers. 

When you say "other beliefs" are you referring to different denominations within the Christian family?  Or are you referring to religions other than the Christian faith? 

My Friend, whether you are a Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic, etc. -  OR - if you a are Calvinist, Arminian, or somewhere in between - OR - if you are a Dispensationalist, as I am, or a Covenant believer - no matter what your eschatological belief, no matter whether you believe in salvation by grace or salvation by works ~ IF YOU believe in Jesus Christ and hold to the Essential Christian Doctrines: (1) The Bible is the Written Word of God - (2) The Trinity: Father, Son, Holy Spirit - (3) Jesus Christ is the only Way for anyone to have eternal life - (4) We are saved by grace through faith, alone - (5) We have two Ordinances left to us by Jesus Christ that we must not forsake, baptism and communion - (6) All people will be Resurrected and will live eternally, either in heaven or in hell.  If you believe and live those Essential Christian Beliefs or Doctrines, you are my Christian brethren.

If by "other beliefs" you mean the many world religions other than Christianity, I realize that many folks around the world do worship in those religions.  However Jesus Christ tells us in John 14:6, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. NO ONE comes to the Father except through Me."  And by NO ONE, He means that NO other religion can bring a person to heaven, give that person eternal life. 

That is obtained ONLY through Him and the Christian faith - and not through any world religion.  So, if by "other beliefs" you mean the many world religions, you may smile at a Buddhist, a Muslim, a Hindu, or any of the many other beliefs/religions - but if you do not tell them about Jesus Christ, that He is the ONLY way to eternal life, you are short changing them eternally.

My Friend:  I believe we will (wish to) continue to pray in Heaven.  Not only pray, but to be able to take those prayers to the very presence of Jesus himself, commune with him, having no veil of death between him and myself.  What is the point of experiencing that joy of prayer, redemption, and forgiveness from us by being cut off from the truth?  Do not make this only about you as a sinner, making your jesus sad.  He knows that it was already forgiven and expected it. Use, instead, your opportunity to share his already given, total forgiveness.

Bill's Response:  When we are in heaven we will be worshiping God joyfully.  Whether you wish to do that in prayer, in person, in song, in joyful dance - I believe we will have many ways to worship and fellowship with Jesus Christ and the Father, for eternity.  But I also believe we will be doing satisfying and constructive tasks on the glorious New Earth, in the beautiful New Jerusalem, and since we are no longer bound in these earthly bodies - we may be able to move around in the New Heaven. 

After all, Jesus in His glorified body moved easily between heaven and earth during the 40 days after His resurrection.  And the Bible tells us in 1 John 3:2, "Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is."   In other words, we will have glorified bodies like His, so I would imagine we will be able to move between spatial dimensions as He does.  Won't that be exciting?

Another realization that is exciting - do you realize that you and I will be learning, for eternity?  Yes, we will constantly be learning from the Master Teacher Himself, eternally.  I realize that must raise the question, "When will we graduate, stop learning, get our Divine Doctorate Degree?"  And the only possible answer:  NEVER!  For if we stop learning, i.e., if we know all things - then we would be equal to God. And we know that will never happen.  Lucifer made the mistake of trying to accomplish that - and look what that got him and billions of angelic beings who followed him.

You tell me, "Do not make this only about you as a sinner, making your jesus sad."  First, He is not my jesus - He is my Jesus Christ, my Savior, Lord of all.  Does He see me as an individual?  Yes, I sincerely know that He does see me, you, and all people as individuals, that we are all saved as individuals - and that is why the Holy Spirit indwells each and every believer at the moment of believing. 

The Holy Spirit indwells each individual believer and will never leave that believer, i.e., a believer has eternal life, until the "day of our redemption" the day we die or are raptured (Ephesians 4:30).

You say "I believe we will (wish to) continue to pray in Heaven."   What is prayer?  Prayer is our personal conversation with God, with Jesus Christ.  In this life we talk with Him, ask His blessings, we seek the special needs of others and ourselves, and most important we seek His forgiveness for the sins we commit daily. 

Yes, believers do commit sins daily.  But what are we really doing when we go to Him in prayer, seeking His forgiveness?  God is omniscient, He knows our sins even before we commit them.  So why do we confess our sins when we pray for forgiveness - since He already knows our sins?  Good question.  Glad you asked.

When we confess our sins, it is not so that God will know what we have done.  He already knows.  Our confession is so that we will understand and own our sins, so that we know what we have done that has grieved the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ, and the Father (Ephesians 4:30) - and ask Him to forgive that transgression - and give us the strength to not repeat those sins. 

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My Friend, and since you tell me you are a Christian believer, I have to believe you are my Friend and a Christian brother whether we communicate in the future or not.  I pray that I have clarified and corrected any misunderstandings or misconceptions there may have been between the two of us.  And I sincerely would love to keep you in my Friends Ministry mail list.  But that is up to you.  I will honor you wish.

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From: Bill Gray
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 8:22 PM
Subject: LET'S TALK ABOUT HEAVEN!

 Hi to all my Friends,

LET'S TALK ABOUT HEAVEN!  ~  Today a Christian sister, Krista Brewer, posted an interesting question on Facebook: 

"Will we have a Companion for 'life' in Heaven?  Obviously we won't be married, the Bible states that word for word.  But I heard two Pastors (one last night) say that there were indications in Scripture that we would have an eternal companion.  I'm gonna look it up and write something on it once I figure it out."

And I responded on her post:

Hi Krista Brewer, Personally I believe that in heaven we will have love for all the saints, but we will still remember and hold close the special relationships we had on earth.  Below is a post I wrote on Facebook in 2002 which alludes to this same subject:

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TODAY, I CRIED  -  January 3, 2002

Today as I was ironing my shirts and levis, a male survival skill taught me as a youth by a wonderful mother, I was listening to a Good News Radio, a Christian radio station in Riverside, California.   The song they were playing, "I Bowed On My Knees And Cried Holy," sung by the Heritage Singers, really touched my heart.  The words spoke of meeting loved ones in heaven.

I thought of my mother who went home to be with the Lord in 1994.  A thought came to me, possibly the Holy Spirit, which made me cry.  I thought about those loved ones, especially my mom, who have gone ahead and I wondered if they know about me now.  I found solace and sadness in the fact that the Bible teaches us that there will be no more tears in heaven.  So my mother's pains, her unhappiness, her heartaches were all left behind when she went home to be with the Lord.

But I could see a picture of her in heaven, with Jesus, and she is always smiling.  She is always happy.  Then I remembered the question that many have asked, "Will my loved one, my mother, my father, my brother or sister, my wife or husband, my child - will they know what is happening to me here on earth, what I am doing, how I am living?  Will they know the many times I have failed to act and walk as a Christian should?  Would my mother be happy with what I am today?"  And I saw, what to me was the answer.

I see Jesus, every time I do something right, going to my mother and telling her what I have done that really pleased Him.  Oh, I know how happy that makes her.  But what about those times when I do things which I know will not please Jesus?  What does He tell my mother then?  The answer, He tells her nothing.  Because He wants her to be happy, so He tells her only the good things about me, the things I do which will make her happy.

That is when I cried.  Because I know that the things which He cannot tell my mother far outweigh the things He can tell her.   And I knew then that, once again, I have made Him very sad - and once again He alone has carried my sins upon His wonderful, cross-scarred shoulders. Once again, He alone has borne my stripes.  That is why I cried.

God bless you and your family,

Bill 

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