We who spend our time writing blogs for Christian Edification
and Apologetics very often get our inspiration for a new blog
from a friend's comment or post, an article posted, and other
times we just feel a need to attempt to explain a Biblical
passage, doctrine, or thought. This blog is sort of a
combination of all three.
If someone asks you, "ARE THERE STILL PROPHETS IN THE CHURCH TODAY?" - how would you respond?
I would ask, "Why do we need them?" Prophets in the Old and New Testaments were agents of God through whom He spoke to the people - because the full book of Scripture, the Bible, was not yet available to them as it is to us today. In the Old Testament God spoke through a number of prophets, the last Old Testament prophet being John the Baptist.
After John the Baptist, God gave us the Perfect Prophet, Jesus Christ - one size fits all! Paul would qualify as both an apostle and a prophet - for he most certainly did give us prophecy of the End Times. And I believe the final New Testament prophet was the apostle John on the island of Patmos, when he wrote the book of Revelation.
Looking at the other books of the New Testament we have: The four Gospels which are the history books of Jesus' earthly life and ministry. Acts is an ongoing unfinished history of the church, the body of Christ. The epistles are primarily books of teaching, encouragement, edification, and guidelines for the church and for each individual believer - showing us how to live the Christian life. And the book of Revelation, supported by a number of Old Testament books, gives us the body of End Times Prophecies, aka, eschatology, aka, the study of end things.
To summarize: God sent prophets to declare His revelations to man before there was a Bible - which now gives His full revelation to man. He initially gave prophets, apostles, evangelists, pastors, teachers (Ephesians 4:11-12) - and each had its purpose.
In the New Testament God chose apostles and disciples to continue writing what would become the books of His Bible - books of guidance, church building, edification, salvation, and prophecy. Then through men guided by God, He put the final stamp on the 66 books of His Bible, the 66 canonical books He has chosen to be His full revelation, His full authority to guide His people and His church.
A misconception held by many, myself included, was that church leaders met at the Council of Nicea and other church councils - and guided by the Holy Spirit, chose the final 66 books which would be considered the official canon of the Bible. Not so. God did work through and guide churches and church leaders to accomplish the finalization of His Bible, to set His final Biblical canon in concrete. But this was not done at any specific church councils.
Let me share with you more thoughts on this subject from several trusted sources:
And another:
From CARM (Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry):
Let me close the referral portion of my blog with this very revealing short video:
So, there we have it. The church today has evangelists, pastors, teachers (Ephesians 4:11-12) - but no Apostles nor Prophets. As R.C. Sproul says in the video, "If you do run into people who seriously claim to be Prophets or Apostles in the Biblical sense - then run for your life." Amen to that.
On a personal note, when I run into men who insist upon being called "Reverend" - which is the right of any person who has graduated from an accredited seminary and has been ordained - I tend to raise my guard.
"Okay, Bill, you are probably stepping on some toes with that statement!"
That may be true, and that is why I said it is a "personal view." Let me explain. In my 50 years in the computer industry, virtually all of it in situations where I met, worked with, or in some way interacted with people from all levels of education and experience - I found that the higher up the education ladder the person accomplished, the less he/she coveted special titles. Over the years I interacted with technicians from Vocational School or Military Schools (which is my background), with engineers with the ink still wet on their degree diplomas, and with many Ph.d.s in a variety of fields.
And from all those years, I have a pretty good feel for how each group will react. I found the Vocational / Military School folks typically just dig in and do their assigned job - no competitive shields. I found that the new engineers (first few years) were always ready to hit me with a challenge - especially when I was making a sales presentation or giving a seminar to their group. And overall, I found that the easiest persons with whom I interacted were the people who had earned their Ph.d. They did not seem to feel the need to wave their "smart" flags. They were comfortable in their educational "skin."
I only ran into one exception. Or I should say, a friend ran into the exception. He made an introductory sales call with one of the top engineering management leaders in a major engineering company, Ramo Wooldridge (later TRW). When they were seated in the man's office, my friend began with, "Sam (not the man's real name), I just want to introduce you to our company today." Mr. Ph.d. responded, "My name is not Sam, it is Dr. Goodfellow!" Makes one wonder if his wife was mean to him that morning - or if he was just that arrogant.
But my point is: Don't be so hung up on titles - that you burn the bridge of relationship behind you. Yes, he deserved to be called "Dr. Goodfellow" for he had earned that prestigious title. Just as a man who has graduated from an accredited seminary and has been ordained has the right to be called "Reverend." But which is more important - the title or the relationship with other people?
So, in closing I must say that I agree 100% with Dr. R.C. Sproul, "If you do run into people who seriously claim to be Prophets or Apostles in the Biblical sense - then run for your life." For those titles went away long ago.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
If someone asks you, "ARE THERE STILL PROPHETS IN THE CHURCH TODAY?" - how would you respond?
I would ask, "Why do we need them?" Prophets in the Old and New Testaments were agents of God through whom He spoke to the people - because the full book of Scripture, the Bible, was not yet available to them as it is to us today. In the Old Testament God spoke through a number of prophets, the last Old Testament prophet being John the Baptist.
After John the Baptist, God gave us the Perfect Prophet, Jesus Christ - one size fits all! Paul would qualify as both an apostle and a prophet - for he most certainly did give us prophecy of the End Times. And I believe the final New Testament prophet was the apostle John on the island of Patmos, when he wrote the book of Revelation.
Looking at the other books of the New Testament we have: The four Gospels which are the history books of Jesus' earthly life and ministry. Acts is an ongoing unfinished history of the church, the body of Christ. The epistles are primarily books of teaching, encouragement, edification, and guidelines for the church and for each individual believer - showing us how to live the Christian life. And the book of Revelation, supported by a number of Old Testament books, gives us the body of End Times Prophecies, aka, eschatology, aka, the study of end things.
To summarize: God sent prophets to declare His revelations to man before there was a Bible - which now gives His full revelation to man. He initially gave prophets, apostles, evangelists, pastors, teachers (Ephesians 4:11-12) - and each had its purpose.
Ephesians 4:11-12, "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ."
In the New Testament God chose apostles and disciples to continue writing what would become the books of His Bible - books of guidance, church building, edification, salvation, and prophecy. Then through men guided by God, He put the final stamp on the 66 books of His Bible, the 66 canonical books He has chosen to be His full revelation, His full authority to guide His people and His church.
A misconception held by many, myself included, was that church leaders met at the Council of Nicea and other church councils - and guided by the Holy Spirit, chose the final 66 books which would be considered the official canon of the Bible. Not so. God did work through and guide churches and church leaders to accomplish the finalization of His Bible, to set His final Biblical canon in concrete. But this was not done at any specific church councils.
Let me share with you more thoughts on this subject from several trusted sources:
FAQ #7: How Were The Books Of The Bible Chosen?
Biblica - The International Bible Society
https://www.biblica.com/resources/bible-faqs/how-were-the-books-of-the-bible-chosen/
The 39 books of the Old Testament form the Bible of Judaism, while the Christian Bible includes those books and also the 27 books of the New Testament. This list of books included in the Bible is known as the canon. That is, the canon refers to the books regarded as inspired by God and authoritative for faith and life. No (one) church created the canon, but the churches and councils gradually accepted the list of books, recognized by believers everywhere, as inspired.
It was actually not until 367 AD that the church father, Athanasius, first provided the complete listing of the 66 books belonging to the canon.
• He distinguished those from other books that were widely circulated - and he noted that those 66 books were the ones, and the only ones, universally accepted.
• The point is that the formation of the canon did not come all at once like a thunderbolt, but was the product of centuries of reflection.
And another:
Ten Basic Facts About The NT Canon That Every Christian Should Memorize:
#8: “The NT Canon Was Not Decided At Nicea - Nor Any Other Church Council.”
From: CANON FODDER, Exploring The Origins Of The New Testament Canon And Other Biblical And Theological Issues
By Michael J. Kruger, President and Professor of New Testament and Early Christianity at Reformed Theological Seminary, Charlotte, NC. -
https://www.michaeljkruger.com/ten-basic-facts-about-the-nt-canon-that-every-christian-should-memorize-8-the-nt-canon-was-not-decided-at-nicea-nor-any-other-church-council/
For whatever set of reasons, there is a widespread belief out there (internet, popular books) that the New Testament canon was decided at the Council of Nicea in 325 AD - under the conspiratorial influence of Constantine. . . . The Council of Nicea had nothing to do with the formation of the New Testament canon (nor did Constantine). Nicea was concerned with how Christians should articulate their beliefs about the divinity of Jesus. Thus it was the birthplace of the Nicean creed. . . .
These councils did not create, authorize, nor determine the canon. They simply were part of the process of recognizing a canon that was already there.
This raises an important fact about the New Testament canon that every Christian should know. The shape of our New Testament canon was not determined by a vote or by a council - but by a broad and ancient consensus. Here we can agree with Bart Ehrman, “The canon of the New Testament was ratified by widespread consensus, rather than by official proclamation.” (from "Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew" - page 231, By Bart D. Ehrman)
This historical reality is a good reminder that the canon is not just a man-made construct. It was not the result of a power play brokered by rich cultural elites in some smoke filled room. It was the result of many years of God’s people reading, using, and responding to these books.
The same was true for the Old Testament canon. Jesus himself used and cited the Old Testament writings with no indication anywhere that there was uncertainty about which books belonged. Indeed, He held His audience accountable for knowing these books. But, in all of this, there was no Old Testament church council that officially picked them (not even Jamnia). They, too, were the result of ancient and widespread consensus.
In the end, we can certainly acknowledge that humans played a role in the canonical process. But, not the role that is so commonly attributed to them. Humans did not determine the canon, they responded to it. . . .
From CARM (Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry):
And,
Doesn't God Give Us Prophets Today?
CARM (Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry)
https://carm.org/doesnt-god-give-us-prophets-today
The Bible says that there aren't any more prophets. Luke 16:16 says that the Law and Prophets were until John the Baptist. The Old Testament was broken up into two sections: the Law (Genesis through Deuteronomy) and the Prophets (all the other OT books). It is the "Prophets" section of the OT that Jesus was referring to in Luke 16:16. Now we have three options to look at. . . .
The truth is that God gave us Prophets (Old Testament) and Apostles (New Testament) for the establishing of the church. Prophets pointed ahead to Jesus. Apostles point back to Jesus. But, now God speaks to us through His Son.
"God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world." (Hebrews 1:1-2).
Are There Modern-Day Prophets Or Is There A Need For Prophets Today?
CARM (Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry)
https://www.crossway.org/articles/pastoral-concern-about-evangelical-prophecy/
So, are prophets still needed today? Looking at the two functions listed above, we can see that the office of prophet is one that is no longer necessary and has ceased within the Church because:
- The foundation of the Church was laid long ago - And -
Let me close the referral portion of my blog with this very revealing short video:
Is God Still Sending Prophets? | John MacArthur & R.C. Sproul
From the 2008 West Coast Conference: Ligon Duncan, John MacArthur, and R.C. Sproul
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcNvXaBP3p0
Excerpt from the video:
Prophets were also appointed by God as specially gifted men, and differ from those believers who have the gift of prophecy (1 Cor. 12:10). Not all such believers could be called prophets. It seems that the office of prophet was exclusively for work within a local congregation, whereas that of apostleship was a much broader ministry, not confined to any area, as implied in the word apostolos (“one who is sent on a mission”). Paul, for example, is referred to as a prophet when he ministered locally in the Antioch church (Acts 13:1) - but elsewhere is always called an apostle. . . .
(Prophets) Like the apostles, however, their office ceased with the completion of the New Testament, just as the Old Testament prophets disappeared when that testament was completed, some 400 years before Christ. The church was established “upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone” (Eph. 2:20). Once the foundation was laid, the work of the apostles and prophets was finished. (First Corinthians, The MacArthur New Testament Commentary [Chicago: Moody, 1984], pp. 322–24)
So, there we have it. The church today has evangelists, pastors, teachers (Ephesians 4:11-12) - but no Apostles nor Prophets. As R.C. Sproul says in the video, "If you do run into people who seriously claim to be Prophets or Apostles in the Biblical sense - then run for your life." Amen to that.
On a personal note, when I run into men who insist upon being called "Reverend" - which is the right of any person who has graduated from an accredited seminary and has been ordained - I tend to raise my guard.
"Okay, Bill, you are probably stepping on some toes with that statement!"
That may be true, and that is why I said it is a "personal view." Let me explain. In my 50 years in the computer industry, virtually all of it in situations where I met, worked with, or in some way interacted with people from all levels of education and experience - I found that the higher up the education ladder the person accomplished, the less he/she coveted special titles. Over the years I interacted with technicians from Vocational School or Military Schools (which is my background), with engineers with the ink still wet on their degree diplomas, and with many Ph.d.s in a variety of fields.
And from all those years, I have a pretty good feel for how each group will react. I found the Vocational / Military School folks typically just dig in and do their assigned job - no competitive shields. I found that the new engineers (first few years) were always ready to hit me with a challenge - especially when I was making a sales presentation or giving a seminar to their group. And overall, I found that the easiest persons with whom I interacted were the people who had earned their Ph.d. They did not seem to feel the need to wave their "smart" flags. They were comfortable in their educational "skin."
I only ran into one exception. Or I should say, a friend ran into the exception. He made an introductory sales call with one of the top engineering management leaders in a major engineering company, Ramo Wooldridge (later TRW). When they were seated in the man's office, my friend began with, "Sam (not the man's real name), I just want to introduce you to our company today." Mr. Ph.d. responded, "My name is not Sam, it is Dr. Goodfellow!" Makes one wonder if his wife was mean to him that morning - or if he was just that arrogant.
But my point is: Don't be so hung up on titles - that you burn the bridge of relationship behind you. Yes, he deserved to be called "Dr. Goodfellow" for he had earned that prestigious title. Just as a man who has graduated from an accredited seminary and has been ordained has the right to be called "Reverend." But which is more important - the title or the relationship with other people?
So, in closing I must say that I agree 100% with Dr. R.C. Sproul, "If you do run into people who seriously claim to be Prophets or Apostles in the Biblical sense - then run for your life." For those titles went away long ago.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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