In the year 2006 I had a number of interesting things happening. I was leading a Bible Study in the book of Revelation - Dory was working on her Graduate Real Estate Institute designation - our granddaughter, Elyssa, graduated from Elementary School at Stoneybrooke Christian School into Middle School (today she is a married college grad teaching in the 6th grade) - and I had a very interesting late evening Norm's Restaurant End Times Bible Study with my Friend, Bob Ginger.
It is always fun to look back at earlier dialogues and see what progress I have made in my quest to grow more mature in God's Word. This look back is from 2006 when Dory and I were serving in a Filipino-American church in Corona and I was leading an independent group Bible study in the book of Revelation. Each week I would send my Study Notes to my Friends Ministry eNewsletter mail list.
So, let's look back at June 2006 and see if Bill Gray has grown and made any progress in my knowledge of God's Word.
It is always fun to look back at earlier dialogues and see what progress I have made in my quest to grow more mature in God's Word. This look back is from 2006 when Dory and I were serving in a Filipino-American church in Corona and I was leading an independent group Bible study in the book of Revelation. Each week I would send my Study Notes to my Friends Ministry eNewsletter mail list.
So, let's look back at June 2006 and see if Bill Gray has grown and made any progress in my knowledge of God's Word.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Subject: A REVELATION QUESTION FOR YOU
Date: Wed, 21 June 2006, 09:49:07 -0700
From: Bill Gray To: BCC Undisclosed Recipients
Hi to all my Friends,
You may, or may not, have noticed that I did not sent out Revelation Bible Study notes this week. That is because we did not have a study last Friday. My wife, Dory, and I had to be in San Diego for two days. She is taking a series of fourteen one day classes to earn her GRI (Graduate Real Estate Institute) designation - the highest for residential real estate sales. And, since I am her computer man, gofer, chauffeur, and all around good guy - I went with her.
Our Friday Night Bible Study has a number of other highly qualified leaders who could have taken over for that evening; but, since this was graduation week and most parents and grandparents were busy with these activities, we decided to cancel Bible study for last Friday.
And speaking of graduation, our beautiful granddaughter, Elyssa, was promoted into the seventh grade at Stoneybrooke Christian School in San Juan Capistrano. Although Lola Dory and Papa Bill could not be there to celebrate with her, since we had to be in San Diego - we are very, very proud of her. This kind of "proud" God loves.
However, I did end up having sort of a Bible study Sunday night - at midnight - at Norm's Restaurant. My friend, Bob Ginger, was at my home Sunday afternoon so that I could take a look at his computer. That "look" went on until about 11:00 PM, so Bob and I decided to have a late dinner.
During our dinner, I started telling Bob how excited I am to be leading the Bible study in Revelation. And that began our discussion. I gave him my End Times overview charts - and then we discussed questions he raised. Later in our discussion, Bob raised a very good question which I am going to have to research. I will share his question after I first lay a wee bit of groundwork.
As we were talking, the waitress overheard our discussion, and not being busy, joined in the conversation. She appeared to be a believer, but with not much knowledge of End Time prophecy. It was a wonderful opportunity to share with her the joy which Revelation promises for the believer - and the responsibility Jesus Christ has given us, as His witnesses (Matthew 28:18-20, Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15), to make sure that many others - especially those who are not currently believers, hear the Gospel and have an opportunity to know that they can receive eternal salvation, have eternal security, and miss the horrible Seven Year Tribulation.
This week, thinking about my discussion with Bob, it dawned on me that I have a great resource from which I can seek an answer to Bob's question, the question I could not answer Sunday night. I will go to all my Friends in my Friends Ministry eNewsletter mail list and get your thoughts on this question.
We know that Old Testament saints are in heaven with Jesus now. We know that Church Age saints who have died are in heaven with Jesus now. We know that the mortal bodies of both OT and Church Age saints are in the grave. And we know that all who believe and are still alive when He comes for His church will be Raptured. And we are still alive at the Rapture, along with those Church Age believers who have died in Christ and the OT saints, will all be with Jesus in heaven. At the Rapture, we will all receive our glorified, immortal bodies, and be like Him (1 John 3:2).
Shortly after the Rapture the seven year Tribulation begins (Daniel 9:27). The Tribulation is God's Judgment of Israel (Ezekiel 20:32-38,34:17-22), His Refiner's Fire which will bring the remnant of His chosen people, Israel, into the fold - along with many left behind Gentiles who will also be saved during the Tribulation:
The church, the universal body of Christ, will be in heaven during the Tribulation (Revelation 3:10, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 5:9). We are told that, at this time prior to the Rapture, the Holy Spirit is restraining the Antichrist. After the Rapture, the Holy Spirit will no longer be a restraining force holding back the appearance of the Antichrist. But, He will still be working among the people left behind during the Tribulation, bringing many to faith.
Some folks have misunderstand 2 Thessalonians 2:7, thinking this means that the Holy Spirit will be removed from earth when the church is raptured. That is not what this Scripture passage in 2 Thessalonians is telling us. Verse 7 tells us that the Holy Spirit will remove His restraint from the Antichrist and will allow him to make his appearance on the world scene. This is all to fulfill Scripture.
What does 2 Thessalonians 2:7-8 mean by, "only He who now restrains (the Holy Spirit) will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one (the Antichrist) will be revealed"?
The Holy Spirit is God and no power can take Him away, or remove Him. What I believe this Scripture passage is saying is that the church, whom the Holy Spirit used to spread the Word of God to the world, will be taken out at the Rapture. In the Old Testament when God deemed it necessary to chasten Israel for her disobedience - He often stood aside and allowed pagan nations to take His chosen people captive.
After a period of refining, He brought them out of captivity. In a sense, that is what God the Holy Spirit will do during the Tribulation. He will allow the Antichrist to make his appearance on the world political scene and wreak havoc upon the nation Israel. This is God's final Refiner's Fire which will make the remnant of Israel into pure gold as the eternal chosen people of God.
Who is the Antichrist? From Pastor David Guzik's Study Guide for 2 Thessalonians 2: www.enduringword.com/commentary/2-thessalonians-2/
So, we can see that the Holy Spirit will still be in business during the Seven Year Tribulation - saving souls! There will be two groups of believers who emerge from the Tribulation: (1) those who were martyred during the Tribulation for their faith in Jesus Christ and are in heaven, and (2) those who believed and yet survived the Tribulation.
Matter of fact, we are told in Revelation 7:9-15 that those Martyred Tribulation saints in heaven will be a large number, a great multitude too great to count. Wow! Yes, the Holy Spirit is definitely moving and working on earth during the Tribulation.
The Tribulation Saints who are martyred during that seven years will be in heaven with Jesus Christ and will have received their glorified bodies. All of us (the Bride of Christ, the OT saints, and the Tribulation saints) will return with Christ (Revelation 19:14) at the end of the Tribulation when Christ returns to earth, His Second Coming, His Glorious Appearing, to defeat the Antichrist and his False Prophet and establish His Millennial Kingdom on earth.
At that time He will sit in judgment of the Tribulation survivors - the Sheep and Goat Judgment (Matthew 25:31-46). There will be many believers (sheep) who will survive the Tribulation and will go into His Millennial Kingdom in their mortal bodies.
With all that said, let's get back to my Friend, Bob Ginger's, question. I will paraphrase the question which he raised:
We know that before the Second Coming (His Glorious Appearing) of Jesus Christ, Jesus is in heaven, and we who die will, in our next breath, be at home with Jesus in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:23). However, during His Millennial Kingdom Jesus will be here on earth.
So, my Friend, Bob, raised a very good question with two implied thoughts: (1) Do believers die in the Millennial Kingdom? And (2) if a believer can die during the Millennial Kingdom - where does he go?
As Bob phrased his question during our dinner Bible study in Norm's Restaurant: "If a believer is sitting in this booth, and Jesus is dining with other friends in another booth, and the believer suddenly dies of a heart attack - will his spirit just go to the other booth to be with Jesus - and his dead mortal body stay in this booth?"
I know! I know! You are mumbling to yourself, "Why does Bill present such inane questions? Isn't it enough just to know that we will be with Jesus Christ when we die?"
And, you are right. Questions such as this, and other discussions of the End Times, i.e., Pretribulation, Post-tribulation, PreMillennial, Amillennial, Rapture, etc., etc., etc. - do not affect our salvation one way or the other. But, a better understanding of Scripture does give the believer a stronger feeling of eternal security, of peace, peace with God (Romans 5:1).
That said, there is a very good reason to discuss these issues - even though they do not affect a person's salvation. "Okay, Bill, why do we want to spend time discussing issues which do not affect our salvation?"
Glad you asked. One of the main goals of our sharing the Gospel and discussing God's Word with believers, and especially non-believers - is to encourage them, and ourselves, to go deeper in our own personal Bible study, to dig deeper into God's Word. So, whether that person is just verifying against Scripture what we have shared (Acts 17:11) ~ OR ~ that person is determined to prove us wrong, either way it is good.
For when we are in God's Word, He will reveal Himself - and He will reveal His true message. A person cannot go wrong by studying God's Word. And that can be the Holy Spirit's way of leading the non-believer into eternal life in Christ. So be happy when folks become Bereans and test your words against Scripture (Acts 17:11) - for it will have a good outcome.
Yet, we must remember there are questions which the Bible does not answer. We are told in 1 Corinthians 13:9-12, "For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known."
One day, we will stand face to face with our Lord and Savior and can ask Him all these questions. But I have a feeling that, at that moment, even though we will be able to ask Him many questions which we have pondered for so many years - I believe we will be so thrilled, so happy, just to be in His presence, we will forget all those questions and just worship Him.
As I said a couple of paragraphs before, these questions do not affect our salvation. However, there is a very good reason that sneaky old Bill Gray sends them to all my Friends. I want to get everyone excited about studying the Bible ~ I want everyone to be excited about searching God's word for answers ~ I want everyone to be seeking answers.
For in that seeking, we all grow in our walk with the Lord, we all grow in our knowledge of Him, His Word, and His will for our lives. You might say that I am putting a bit of salt into that open "spiritual knowledge" wound to make you more aware of it.
All said and done, I would love to hear what you think about Bob's question.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
A FRIEND RESPONDS:
From: Dr. Bob Griffin To: Bill Gray - Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006:
Bill, Will a believer (one in his mortal body who has survived the Tribulation and entered the Millennial Kingdom) ever die? Or will he, like Adam live in an Edenic earth for that 1000 without the curse? - OR - At the end of such time will he will be taken to heaven (earth destroyed) like those in the rapture and given a new body? I see no death in the Kingdom. Grif
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
ANOTHER FRIEND RESPONDS:
Bill Walker writes - Wed, 21 Jun 2006
Bill, not sure I understand the question just right. But, today, as I understand it, when a person dies - the soul departs leaving the used-up body behind, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Would it be not the same at that time? Bill Walker
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Let me attempt to answer these questions to the best of my ability:
Much of what we hear in sermons, etc., regarding that time period comes from Isaiah 65. What is Isaiah 65 really telling us?
This Scripture passage in Isaiah 65:17-19 begins by speaking of the time beyond the Millennial Kingdom - the time of the New Heaven, New Earth, and New Jerusalem, "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing, And her people a joy. I will rejoice in Jerusalem, And joy in My people; The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, Nor the voice of crying." See Revelation 21.
Then, in Isaiah 65:20-23 he switches to events of the Millennial Kingdom, "No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed. They shall build houses and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. They shall not build and another inhabit; They shall not plant and another eat; For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labor in vain, Nor bring forth children for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD, And their offspring with them."
And, then he returns again to the time beyond the Millennial Kingdom, to eternity, the time of the New Earth, in Isaiah 65:24-25, "'It shall come to pass That before they call, I will answer; And while they are still speaking, I will hear. The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, The lion shall eat straw like the ox, And dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,' Says the LORD."
Let me offer two good references:
First, Pastor David Guzik in his Study Guide for Isaiah 65:
Then, let's take a look at what Dave Hunt has written in The Berean Call Newsletter Q&A Section:
So, to get back to my Friend, Bob Ginger's, Bible study in Norm's Restaurant question:
Personally, I lean toward believing that those who walk with Christ during the Millennial Kingdom will not die. Why do I say this? I believe that Jesus Christ will be happy being in fellowship with believers, mortal and immortal, during His Millennial Reign. Christ died to offer eternal life to all who will believe in Him and receive His precious gift of eternal life. That is all in the past during the Millennial Kingdom. Why rehash old news?
"But, Bill, there will be millions of mortals born during the Millennial Kingdom who still will not receive Him as Lord and Savior. What about them? Will they die?"
During that time, Satan is locked in the abyss and the Antichrist and his Prophet are already in hell. So, there will be no temptation from those sources. Because of that, mortals who do not believe and receive Him - will do so out of apathy, just not making the effort. Just as God does with us now, He will give those folks every opportunity during the 1000 year millennium to believe. Why would He allow them to die in disbelief at an early age when they have 1000 years to turn around and follow Him? Will they get away with their apathetic denial of Christ? No.
Haven't you ever wondered why God is going to release Satan from the abyss after 1000 years? Why not just leave him there - or just throw him into hell to be with his Antichrist and Prophet?
God has a plan and a final use for Satan. At the end of the 1000 year Millennial Kingdom, there will be millions, maybe billions, of apathetic non-believers. They have had 1000 years to believe and have eternal life. Now God releases Satan to be their tempter - and the vast majority will actually follow Satan. An apathetic person has no roots, no foundation - so they blow with the wind. And, we know that no one - OT, Church Age, Tribulation, or Millennium - can spend eternity in the presence of God if he/she does firmly stand with Jesus Christ. So, in their apathy, they, by default, follow Satan toward their final destruction.
"Bill, how can people who have lived for 1000 years under the perfect theocracy, the perfect world rule of Christ - now turn to Satan?"
I realize that is hard to understand, but the Bible tells us it is so.
So, will those who do not believe and receive Christ during the Millennial Kingdom die? Yes, but to make God's mercy and justice complete - they will die after the Millennium along with their new leader, Satan, when God zaps them all with His divine fire from heaven.
Then they, along with all other non-believers since the Creation, will stand before Jesus Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment - to be sent into eternal hell (Revelation 20:11-15).
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Subject: A REVELATION QUESTION FOR YOU
Date: Wed, 21 June 2006, 09:49:07 -0700
From: Bill Gray To: BCC Undisclosed Recipients
Hi to all my Friends,
You may, or may not, have noticed that I did not sent out Revelation Bible Study notes this week. That is because we did not have a study last Friday. My wife, Dory, and I had to be in San Diego for two days. She is taking a series of fourteen one day classes to earn her GRI (Graduate Real Estate Institute) designation - the highest for residential real estate sales. And, since I am her computer man, gofer, chauffeur, and all around good guy - I went with her.
Our Friday Night Bible Study has a number of other highly qualified leaders who could have taken over for that evening; but, since this was graduation week and most parents and grandparents were busy with these activities, we decided to cancel Bible study for last Friday.
And speaking of graduation, our beautiful granddaughter, Elyssa, was promoted into the seventh grade at Stoneybrooke Christian School in San Juan Capistrano. Although Lola Dory and Papa Bill could not be there to celebrate with her, since we had to be in San Diego - we are very, very proud of her. This kind of "proud" God loves.
However, I did end up having sort of a Bible study Sunday night - at midnight - at Norm's Restaurant. My friend, Bob Ginger, was at my home Sunday afternoon so that I could take a look at his computer. That "look" went on until about 11:00 PM, so Bob and I decided to have a late dinner.
During our dinner, I started telling Bob how excited I am to be leading the Bible study in Revelation. And that began our discussion. I gave him my End Times overview charts - and then we discussed questions he raised. Later in our discussion, Bob raised a very good question which I am going to have to research. I will share his question after I first lay a wee bit of groundwork.
As we were talking, the waitress overheard our discussion, and not being busy, joined in the conversation. She appeared to be a believer, but with not much knowledge of End Time prophecy. It was a wonderful opportunity to share with her the joy which Revelation promises for the believer - and the responsibility Jesus Christ has given us, as His witnesses (Matthew 28:18-20, Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15), to make sure that many others - especially those who are not currently believers, hear the Gospel and have an opportunity to know that they can receive eternal salvation, have eternal security, and miss the horrible Seven Year Tribulation.
This week, thinking about my discussion with Bob, it dawned on me that I have a great resource from which I can seek an answer to Bob's question, the question I could not answer Sunday night. I will go to all my Friends in my Friends Ministry eNewsletter mail list and get your thoughts on this question.
We know that Old Testament saints are in heaven with Jesus now. We know that Church Age saints who have died are in heaven with Jesus now. We know that the mortal bodies of both OT and Church Age saints are in the grave. And we know that all who believe and are still alive when He comes for His church will be Raptured. And we are still alive at the Rapture, along with those Church Age believers who have died in Christ and the OT saints, will all be with Jesus in heaven. At the Rapture, we will all receive our glorified, immortal bodies, and be like Him (1 John 3:2).
Shortly after the Rapture the seven year Tribulation begins (Daniel 9:27). The Tribulation is God's Judgment of Israel (Ezekiel 20:32-38,34:17-22), His Refiner's Fire which will bring the remnant of His chosen people, Israel, into the fold - along with many left behind Gentiles who will also be saved during the Tribulation:
Malachi 3:2-5, "But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire And like launderers' soap. He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi, And purge them as gold and silver, That they may offer to the LORD An offering in righteousness. Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem Will be pleasant to the LORD, As in the days of old, As in former years. And I will come near you for judgment. . ."
The church, the universal body of Christ, will be in heaven during the Tribulation (Revelation 3:10, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 5:9). We are told that, at this time prior to the Rapture, the Holy Spirit is restraining the Antichrist. After the Rapture, the Holy Spirit will no longer be a restraining force holding back the appearance of the Antichrist. But, He will still be working among the people left behind during the Tribulation, bringing many to faith.
Some folks have misunderstand 2 Thessalonians 2:7, thinking this means that the Holy Spirit will be removed from earth when the church is raptured. That is not what this Scripture passage in 2 Thessalonians is telling us. Verse 7 tells us that the Holy Spirit will remove His restraint from the Antichrist and will allow him to make his appearance on the world scene. This is all to fulfill Scripture.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, 6-8, "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin (the Antichrist) is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. . . . And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed. . ."
What does 2 Thessalonians 2:7-8 mean by, "only He who now restrains (the Holy Spirit) will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one (the Antichrist) will be revealed"?
The Holy Spirit is God and no power can take Him away, or remove Him. What I believe this Scripture passage is saying is that the church, whom the Holy Spirit used to spread the Word of God to the world, will be taken out at the Rapture. In the Old Testament when God deemed it necessary to chasten Israel for her disobedience - He often stood aside and allowed pagan nations to take His chosen people captive.
After a period of refining, He brought them out of captivity. In a sense, that is what God the Holy Spirit will do during the Tribulation. He will allow the Antichrist to make his appearance on the world political scene and wreak havoc upon the nation Israel. This is God's final Refiner's Fire which will make the remnant of Israel into pure gold as the eternal chosen people of God.
Who is the Antichrist? From Pastor David Guzik's Study Guide for 2 Thessalonians 2: www.enduringword.com/commentary/2-thessalonians-2/
+ Daniel described an individual person: The prince who is to come (Daniel 9:26), the king of fierce countenance (Daniel 8:23), the willful king (Daniel 11:36-45).
+ Jesus described an individual person: The one who comes in his own name (John 5:43).
+ We are not surprised that Paul described this man of sin as an individual person, not as a system or an office (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).
So, we can see that the Holy Spirit will still be in business during the Seven Year Tribulation - saving souls! There will be two groups of believers who emerge from the Tribulation: (1) those who were martyred during the Tribulation for their faith in Jesus Christ and are in heaven, and (2) those who believed and yet survived the Tribulation.
Matter of fact, we are told in Revelation 7:9-15 that those Martyred Tribulation saints in heaven will be a large number, a great multitude too great to count. Wow! Yes, the Holy Spirit is definitely moving and working on earth during the Tribulation.
The Tribulation Saints who are martyred during that seven years will be in heaven with Jesus Christ and will have received their glorified bodies. All of us (the Bride of Christ, the OT saints, and the Tribulation saints) will return with Christ (Revelation 19:14) at the end of the Tribulation when Christ returns to earth, His Second Coming, His Glorious Appearing, to defeat the Antichrist and his False Prophet and establish His Millennial Kingdom on earth.
Revelation 19:7-9, 14, "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride (the church) has made herself ready. It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Then he said to me, 'Write, 'Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb (OT and martyred Tribulation saints)' . . . And the armies (His Bride, OT saints, Tribulation saints, angelic legions) which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses."
At that time He will sit in judgment of the Tribulation survivors - the Sheep and Goat Judgment (Matthew 25:31-46). There will be many believers (sheep) who will survive the Tribulation and will go into His Millennial Kingdom in their mortal bodies.
The Subjects of the Judgment (Matt. 25:32): All the nations will be gathered before Jesus. The word for nations is ethne, plural of ethnos. A nation is “the largest unit into which the people of the world are divided on the basis of their constituting a socio-political community” (Louw-Nida Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament).
In the Jewish context here in Matthew, the nations of the world exist in distinction to (Bill Gray Note: or from) the chosen nation of the world, Israel. The people here thus constitute all the non-Jewish people of the world (Bill Gray Note: Gentiles) who survive the devastation of the Tribulation period. (The Judgment of Survivors of the Tribulation Period at the Second Coming of Christ - www.wordexplain.com/Last_Survivors-Judged.html)
With all that said, let's get back to my Friend, Bob Ginger's, question. I will paraphrase the question which he raised:
"We know that today believers who die go immediately into the presence of Christ in heaven. And, we know that Tribulation martyrs killed during the horrible seven year Tribulation go into His presence. But, what happens in the Millennial Kingdom when Christ has returned to earth for His 1000 Millennial Reign?
During the Millennial Kingdom, since Christ is already on earth - when a believer who is still in his mortal body, dies - where does he go, what happens to him at the moment of death?"
We know that before the Second Coming (His Glorious Appearing) of Jesus Christ, Jesus is in heaven, and we who die will, in our next breath, be at home with Jesus in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:23). However, during His Millennial Kingdom Jesus will be here on earth.
So, my Friend, Bob, raised a very good question with two implied thoughts: (1) Do believers die in the Millennial Kingdom? And (2) if a believer can die during the Millennial Kingdom - where does he go?
As Bob phrased his question during our dinner Bible study in Norm's Restaurant: "If a believer is sitting in this booth, and Jesus is dining with other friends in another booth, and the believer suddenly dies of a heart attack - will his spirit just go to the other booth to be with Jesus - and his dead mortal body stay in this booth?"
I know! I know! You are mumbling to yourself, "Why does Bill present such inane questions? Isn't it enough just to know that we will be with Jesus Christ when we die?"
And, you are right. Questions such as this, and other discussions of the End Times, i.e., Pretribulation, Post-tribulation, PreMillennial, Amillennial, Rapture, etc., etc., etc. - do not affect our salvation one way or the other. But, a better understanding of Scripture does give the believer a stronger feeling of eternal security, of peace, peace with God (Romans 5:1).
That said, there is a very good reason to discuss these issues - even though they do not affect a person's salvation. "Okay, Bill, why do we want to spend time discussing issues which do not affect our salvation?"
Glad you asked. One of the main goals of our sharing the Gospel and discussing God's Word with believers, and especially non-believers - is to encourage them, and ourselves, to go deeper in our own personal Bible study, to dig deeper into God's Word. So, whether that person is just verifying against Scripture what we have shared (Acts 17:11) ~ OR ~ that person is determined to prove us wrong, either way it is good.
For when we are in God's Word, He will reveal Himself - and He will reveal His true message. A person cannot go wrong by studying God's Word. And that can be the Holy Spirit's way of leading the non-believer into eternal life in Christ. So be happy when folks become Bereans and test your words against Scripture (Acts 17:11) - for it will have a good outcome.
Yet, we must remember there are questions which the Bible does not answer. We are told in 1 Corinthians 13:9-12, "For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known."
One day, we will stand face to face with our Lord and Savior and can ask Him all these questions. But I have a feeling that, at that moment, even though we will be able to ask Him many questions which we have pondered for so many years - I believe we will be so thrilled, so happy, just to be in His presence, we will forget all those questions and just worship Him.
As I said a couple of paragraphs before, these questions do not affect our salvation. However, there is a very good reason that sneaky old Bill Gray sends them to all my Friends. I want to get everyone excited about studying the Bible ~ I want everyone to be excited about searching God's word for answers ~ I want everyone to be seeking answers.
For in that seeking, we all grow in our walk with the Lord, we all grow in our knowledge of Him, His Word, and His will for our lives. You might say that I am putting a bit of salt into that open "spiritual knowledge" wound to make you more aware of it.
All said and done, I would love to hear what you think about Bob's question.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
A FRIEND RESPONDS:
From: Dr. Bob Griffin To: Bill Gray - Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006:
Bill, Will a believer (one in his mortal body who has survived the Tribulation and entered the Millennial Kingdom) ever die? Or will he, like Adam live in an Edenic earth for that 1000 without the curse? - OR - At the end of such time will he will be taken to heaven (earth destroyed) like those in the rapture and given a new body? I see no death in the Kingdom. Grif
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
ANOTHER FRIEND RESPONDS:
Bill Walker writes - Wed, 21 Jun 2006
Bill, not sure I understand the question just right. But, today, as I understand it, when a person dies - the soul departs leaving the used-up body behind, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Would it be not the same at that time? Bill Walker
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Let me attempt to answer these questions to the best of my ability:
Much of what we hear in sermons, etc., regarding that time period comes from Isaiah 65. What is Isaiah 65 really telling us?
This Scripture passage in Isaiah 65:17-19 begins by speaking of the time beyond the Millennial Kingdom - the time of the New Heaven, New Earth, and New Jerusalem, "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing, And her people a joy. I will rejoice in Jerusalem, And joy in My people; The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, Nor the voice of crying." See Revelation 21.
Then, in Isaiah 65:20-23 he switches to events of the Millennial Kingdom, "No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed. They shall build houses and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. They shall not build and another inhabit; They shall not plant and another eat; For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labor in vain, Nor bring forth children for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD, And their offspring with them."
And, then he returns again to the time beyond the Millennial Kingdom, to eternity, the time of the New Earth, in Isaiah 65:24-25, "'It shall come to pass That before they call, I will answer; And while they are still speaking, I will hear. The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, The lion shall eat straw like the ox, And dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,' Says the LORD."
Let me offer two good references:
First, Pastor David Guzik in his Study Guide for Isaiah 65:
ii. From John's context we see that this new heavens and a new earth comes after the Great White Throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) and is connected not with the millennial earth, but with the eternal state. If all we had to go by was Isaiah's statement, we would automatically connect this new heavens and a new earth with the millennial earth, because immediately after Isaiah 65:17-19, we clearly find the millennial earth described.
But based on what we find in 2 Peter and Revelation, we must see that Isaiah is in the prophetic habit of switching quickly from one time frame to another, speaking of the eternal state in Isaiah 65:17, and of the millennial earth in Isaiah 65:20-25.
Then, let's take a look at what Dave Hunt has written in The Berean Call Newsletter Q&A Section:
Question: ". . . In the millennium, a child will die being 100 years old and will go...where? . . ."
An excerpt from Dave Hunt's answer: To speak of a hundred-year-old as a "child" does not mean that person is immature physically or mentally but that to die at 100 during the Millennium would be like being cut off in childhood. Those dying that "young" must be wicked and taken instantly to hell to join the "rich man" and multitudes of others in torment. (The Berean Call Q&A: www.thebereancall.org/node/5573)
So, to get back to my Friend, Bob Ginger's, Bible study in Norm's Restaurant question:
"If a believer is sitting in this booth, and Jesus is dining with other friends in another booth, and the believer suddenly dies of a heart attack - will his spirit just go to the other booth to be with Jesus - and his dead mortal body stay in this booth?"
Personally, I lean toward believing that those who walk with Christ during the Millennial Kingdom will not die. Why do I say this? I believe that Jesus Christ will be happy being in fellowship with believers, mortal and immortal, during His Millennial Reign. Christ died to offer eternal life to all who will believe in Him and receive His precious gift of eternal life. That is all in the past during the Millennial Kingdom. Why rehash old news?
"But, Bill, there will be millions of mortals born during the Millennial Kingdom who still will not receive Him as Lord and Savior. What about them? Will they die?"
During that time, Satan is locked in the abyss and the Antichrist and his Prophet are already in hell. So, there will be no temptation from those sources. Because of that, mortals who do not believe and receive Him - will do so out of apathy, just not making the effort. Just as God does with us now, He will give those folks every opportunity during the 1000 year millennium to believe. Why would He allow them to die in disbelief at an early age when they have 1000 years to turn around and follow Him? Will they get away with their apathetic denial of Christ? No.
Haven't you ever wondered why God is going to release Satan from the abyss after 1000 years? Why not just leave him there - or just throw him into hell to be with his Antichrist and Prophet?
God has a plan and a final use for Satan. At the end of the 1000 year Millennial Kingdom, there will be millions, maybe billions, of apathetic non-believers. They have had 1000 years to believe and have eternal life. Now God releases Satan to be their tempter - and the vast majority will actually follow Satan. An apathetic person has no roots, no foundation - so they blow with the wind. And, we know that no one - OT, Church Age, Tribulation, or Millennium - can spend eternity in the presence of God if he/she does firmly stand with Jesus Christ. So, in their apathy, they, by default, follow Satan toward their final destruction.
"Bill, how can people who have lived for 1000 years under the perfect theocracy, the perfect world rule of Christ - now turn to Satan?"
I realize that is hard to understand, but the Bible tells us it is so.
Revelation 20:7-10, "Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them (the apathetic non-believers) together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city (earthly Jerusalem). And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
So, will those who do not believe and receive Christ during the Millennial Kingdom die? Yes, but to make God's mercy and justice complete - they will die after the Millennium along with their new leader, Satan, when God zaps them all with His divine fire from heaven.
Then they, along with all other non-believers since the Creation, will stand before Jesus Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment - to be sent into eternal hell (Revelation 20:11-15).
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
No comments:
Post a Comment