In my archives today I found this 2015 dialogue with a TimesDaily
Religion Forum Friend, Linda. It started as a Private Message, but
with her permission I shared it on the Religion Forum, in my Facebook
Notes, and in my Friends Ministry eNewsletter. Re-reading it today, and
considering that I have been blessed with new Friends since sharing
this writing two years ago - it seems timely to share it again. If you
have read it before, please be patient with me - for there may be one or
two new Friends who are wrestling with a question which might be answered here.
One of the greatest blessings in doing a writing ministry is
that most often my inspiration and subject matter come from
comments and questions sent to me by Friends. And, at times a
Friend's comments/questions will really stretch my ability to
answer. While I learn something new with every response I
write, some really make me work to be sure that I am not
slipping in some small instance of leaven which could lead
someone astray.
This response is one of those cases where I wanted to be sure that I have checked and rechecked my thoughts - oftentimes leaving it sit for a day and then going back and rereading what I have written. And, that is why you will often see me apologizing for taking a wee bit longer to send a response. By the time I posted this response, I had read and reread it 15 to 20 times. And you may still find a point where you and I have a doctrinal disagreement, which is no problem for that just leads to deeper studies for both you and me. But, hopefully you will find no typos or misspelled words.
That was the case with the e-mail from my long time Christian sister, Linda. Her comments and questions come from her love of Jesus Christ and her desire to better understand, and be able to share, what God's Word is teaching us. Below is the dialogue between Linda and me. I pray that it offers you one or two "golden nuggets" which you can use when God gives you an opportunity to be His witness.
This response is one of those cases where I wanted to be sure that I have checked and rechecked my thoughts - oftentimes leaving it sit for a day and then going back and rereading what I have written. And, that is why you will often see me apologizing for taking a wee bit longer to send a response. By the time I posted this response, I had read and reread it 15 to 20 times. And you may still find a point where you and I have a doctrinal disagreement, which is no problem for that just leads to deeper studies for both you and me. But, hopefully you will find no typos or misspelled words.
That was the case with the e-mail from my long time Christian sister, Linda. Her comments and questions come from her love of Jesus Christ and her desire to better understand, and be able to share, what God's Word is teaching us. Below is the dialogue between Linda and me. I pray that it offers you one or two "golden nuggets" which you can use when God gives you an opportunity to be His witness.
On Apr 3, 2015, at
4:59 PM, Bill Gray wrote:
Linda Responds:
First, I apologize for taking so long to respond to your e-mail. I pray that what I am sending you is a better answer because of the delay, than just shooting from the hip. Your e-mail reminds me of an excerpt from the Charles Swindoll Bible Study Guide "The Church: Purpose, Profile, Priorities." The first chapter begins: "Socrates was wise, it is said, not because he knew the right answers, but because he knew how to ask the right questions."
You do me an honor with your questions. So, let me begin by breaking your thoughts, comments, and questions down into bite-size and attempt to respond to each separately :
On 3/22/2015, 3:59 AM, you wrote regarding my Facebook Note "What Happens After We Die? - Does 'ANYONE' On The Timesdaily Forums Know?":
Linda, there will always be things we do not fully understand for now.
When we get to heaven, we will have the greatest teacher that has ever been - for He created everything. Will we go from fuzzy thinking to knowing everything? No, that cannot be true; for if we could know everything we will be like God - and that was Lucifer/Satan's problem. He wanted to be like God (Isaiah 14:12-14).
And, in a greater sense, not having unlimited knowledge is a blessing. It means that throughout eternity, we will always be learning. Imagine that. No boredom there! Every day we will learn more - like being in the "Eternal Institute of Higher Learning" and having the greatest of all teachers. I can hardly wait to begin working toward that degree!
You wrote:
I am glad you bring up the Rapture. There are believers who deny that the Rapture will happen, but I will not go into that discussion at this time. Let me just say that John 14:1-3, 1 Corinthians 15:50-53, and 1 Thessalonians 13-18 definitely speak of Jesus Christ coming for His church, His body of believers.
And, I do believe in a PreTribulation Rapture, i.e., that Christ will come to take (catch up, harpazō, rapiemur, rapture) all believers from the earth before the beginning of the seven year Tribulation (Revelation 3:10, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 1 Thessalonians 5:9).
As believers, we may be dead or alive when the Rapture occurs. Either way, this presents no problem for believers. When we die in this mortal body - this lifeless body, this shell, goes into the grave. It truly does die in the sense that there is no longer any life in that decaying body. But, our soul/spirit, which lives eternally, goes directly into the presence of Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:22-23).
There are differing thoughts on the soul and spirit. We know the body is merely the physical part of us which allows us to interact with the world around us. And, when we die, that body goes into the grave as an empty shell. But, what is the soul and spirit? I look at our soul as being our human personality, that which makes us distinct and different from other people. Just as everyone has different fingerprints, I believe we each have different, but often similar, personalities. To me that is the soul.
And, I view the spirit as being our connection with God. God is Spirit (John 4:24) and the believing man/woman communes with Him, worships Him, in spirit. Because God is Spirit, we commune with Him in spirit. And because Jesus Christ resurrected and ascended in His immortal body, we will commune with Him in our immortal bodies after we are raptured.
Just as God is a Triune God and the three Persons of the Godhead, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, cannot be separated - we believers are also triune beings: body, soul, spirit. Eternally, our triune being will not be separated. Our mortal body will be replaced by an immortal body (1 Corinthians 15:50-53), eternally existing with our soul/spirit. In that sense, we are made in His image (Genesis 1:26).
Man was created to have a very personal, direct line of communication with God. We know from Genesis 3:8 that God would walk in the garden with Adam and Eve. That is very personal. Yet, when Adam disobeyed God, that personal connection was broken - the spiritual connection between God and man was broken. Immediately, man became "spiritually dead" bringing about our proclivity toward sin - and man began the process of physical death. Bodily deterioration, diseases, and illnesses are part of the dying process of the mortal body which was caused by Adam's fall.
Let me give you several excerpts to ponder. There are also links where you may read each article in more detail:
In your comment above, you say:
That is true. This fallen mortal body goes into the grave to decay back into dust (Genesis 3:19, Job 34:15, Ecclesiastes 3:20). And, our soul/spirit goes immediately into the presence of God. For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23).
These two Scripture passages tell us that, at the Rapture when Christ comes to call home His church, his worldwide body of believers - those who have died before He comes for us will be raised first, as they should be. Then, in the twinkling of an eye (virtually an immeasurable time) after they rise, we believers who are still alive will be "snatched out, raptured" to join them and Jesus Christ in the air.
At that moment, we will all have our new glorified, immortal, incorruptible bodies, i.e., we will be like Him (1 John 3:2) in that we will have immortal bodies like His. We will not be divine deity, but we will be in our immortal bodies which are like the immortal human body He retained as He ascended into heaven.
Then, just as He led the Old Testament saints into heaven (Ephesians 4:8), He will lead we who have been raptured into heaven to be in the presence of God forever.
Next, in your comment above you say:
True, we will love all the saints in heaven - for God is love, and all who will be in His presence eternally will know only love. But, since we still have our soul, through which we have special relationships with loved ones on earth - I believe we will still have these special relationships eternally. The Bible does not tell us that we will lose those precious memories.
We will not be man and wife. But, the ones for whom we have a special love on earth - will still be very special to us. Yet without any jealousies. On earth, I have had two special loves - my first wife, Betty, with whom I had a close relationship until her death in 2001, even long after we were no longer man and wife. And, my wife, Dory, who has been my special love for thirty-seven years (now thirty-nine years) and counting, will always be my special love into eternity. Will Dory be jealous of Betty? No. She was not jealous of her in our earthly lives; how could she be jealous in our "God is love" immortal lives? They will be sisters in Christ.
In heaven, my mother will always be my beloved mom. And, I believe that all my loved ones will continue to hold a special place in my heart. My immortal heart/soul will be big enough to encompass all of God's people in love - and to still have a special place for those who were so special to me on earth.
Next, you wrote:
Are there, or will there be, streets of gold in heaven? The abode of God will always be perfect, whether He is residing in the "third heaven" or in the New Jerusalem. The goldsmith puts newly mined gold into the smelter to remove impurities. If all impurities could be removed, the gold would be transparent. You will notice that gold is rated: the highest man-given rating for pure gold is 24 karat. But, is there anything in this fallen world which is pure? No, in this worldly existence, there will always be impurities. But, in God's presence all impurities will be removed and just as pure gold would be transparent, so will our eternal existence in the presence of God be - without impurities, transparent and glorified.
Now that we have discussed the Rapture, let's transition to the seven year Tribulation and the 1000 year Millennial Kingdom of Christ on earth.
Before the Tribulation (PreTribulation), when we die or are raptured from this mortal body - we will go directly into the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). Until His Second Coming, after the Tribulation, He is in heaven, the abode of God - and we, Old Testament saints, New Testament saints, i.e., the church, and the martyred Tribulation saints, will be in His heavenly presence.
In 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 Paul tells us that he was caught up into "the third heaven" - into Paradise. How many heavens are there? We can view our atmosphere as the first heaven, that which surrounds our world. The second heaven would be space, unfathomably huge, but still having limits set by God. And, the third heaven as defined by Paul is Paradise, the throne room of God.
If you recall, Old Testament saints resided in Hades/Paradise (Luke 16:19-31) until Christ died and was resurrected, leading them into heaven. Why? Because "no one" - Old Testament or New Testament - can enter the kingdom of God except through, or with, Jesus Christ (John 14:6). He had not yet come as the Incarnate God, the Messiah, to be our Sacrificial Lamb offering. So the Old Testament saints had to wait in Hades/Paradise for Him to come and lead them into heaven.
During the three days between His crucifixion/burial - and when He resurrected, I believe He spent that time celebrating and sharing the eternal Word of God with the saints waiting in the Bosom of Abraham, Hades/Paradise. And, then He led them into heaven (Ephesians 4:8) relocating Hades/Paradise to its new location, Heaven/Paradise.
However, Hades/Torment (Luke 16:23) is still open for business and doing a landslide business. That is the place where, at their mortal death, all non-believers will go to wait, in full awareness, to be resurrected for their judgment. After the 1000 year Millennial Kingdom they will be resurrected into their immortal bodies to stand before Jesus Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) which is their final judgment of punishment before they go into an eternal existence void of God and His love, which can only be called hell.
Since His death, resurrection, and ascension - all believers who die go directly into His presence in heaven.
Was the Hades/Paradise of Luke 16:19-31 anything like the Roman Catholic purgatory? No, for the Roman Catholic concept of purgatory involves additional suffering, i.e., additional payment for sins committed in their mortal bodies.
Yet, when Jesus Christ died on the cross, He declared, "It is finished!" (John 19:30). That meant His full work of propitiation, atonement for the sins of all mankind, was finished. He had finished the work given Him by the Father. Now it is up to each individual person to either accept that free gift of eternal life which He purchased with His precious blood - or to reject that gift.
His crucifixion was "payment in full" for all sin - past, present, future - of all people (Romans 6:10, Hebrews 7:27, 9:12, 10:10). That was a "paid in full" pardon from our sin prison. All we have to do to receive that full pardon - is to accept His free gift of eternal life. When we, by grace through faith, receive Him as our personal Lord and Savior - we have eternal, never ending, life in Christ.
At His resurrection Christ closed down Hades/Paradise and moved it into heaven. It is now Heaven/Paradise or heavenly Paradise.
Because of that, until His Second Coming after the Tribulation, all believers who die, are raptured, or martyred - will go immediately into heaven, Paradise. Shortly after the Rapture, Israel will sign a seven year peace accord with the Antichrist - which begins the clock running for the seven year Tribulation on earth (Daniel 9:27).
During that seven years of Tribulation the church will be in heaven where we will stand before Christ at the Believers' Judgment (Bema Seat Judgment), a judgment of rewards, or lack of rewards, depending upon what we do in this mortal life. In other words, today are we living for Christ - or are we just "couch potato" Christians, saved but doing nothing to bring others into the family of Christ? That witnessing in His name is the "works" which should follow salvation for all believers.
Yet, the Believers' Judgment has another very important function. In this mortal life, when we become believers we still have the curse of our sin nature upon us. God cannot look upon sin (Habakkuk 1:13). We cannot work our way into heaven, for when He looks upon us any works, any good deeds, we might do to earn salvation - are as filthy rags in His sight (Isaiah 64:6). On our own, with all the works or good deeds we may attempt in an effort to work our way into heaven - God looks at us and sees only a cesspool. So, how do we get around that problem?
Simple. By the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ we are saved, sealed in Christ, and indwelled by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13, 2:8-9). The moment that happens, we have the righteousness of Jesus Christ attributed (imputed) to our account (Romans 3:21–22) - so when God looks at us, He does not see our meager, frail works. He sees only the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
Yet, as the Bride of Christ, we cannot participate in the Wedding Feast of the Lamb in our filthy garments, nor can we participate wearing borrowed gowns of righteousness. We must be able to approach the throne of God in our own clean, white robes of righteousness, our own gown of fine linen, clean, and bright. The purpose of the Bema Seat Judgment in heaven during the seven year Tribulation is two-fold: (1) to reward believers - and - (2) to robe us in our own fine linen, pure white wedding gowns drawn from the righteous acts of the saints (Revelation 19:8).
What are the rewards for believers? First, at the Rapture, ". . we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, . . ." in our immortal bodies (1 John 3:2).
Then, there are other rewards for believers:
At the Believers' Judgment, we, the promised Bride of Christ, will receive our own robes of righteousness - created from the righteous acts of the saints - righteous acts of works done AFTER we have become believers and followers of Jesus Christ:
The two key events for raptured believers in heaven will be: The Believers' Judgment where we will receive our own personal robes of righteousness, and the Wedding Feast of the Lamb when He takes us, His church, to be His Bride (Revelation 19:6-9).
Then at the end of the seven year Tribulation, He returns again to earth, His Second Coming in Glory. At His first coming, He came as the meek sacrificial Lamb of God. At His Second Coming in Glory, He comes as the conquering Lion of Judah (Revelation 19:11-21). This will happen at the end of the seven year Tribulation when He returns to earth to establish His Millennial Kingdom in Jerusalem, sitting upon the throne of David in Jerusalem.
Then, Linda, you ask:
First, let me clarify one point. All who enter into His Millennial Kingdom will be believers. No unbelievers will enter His Millennial Kingdom. So, at that point in time, there will be no need to win souls for Christ - for everyone in the Millennial Kingdom will be believers. Mortal believers who survived the Tribulation will enter the Millennium Kingdom in their earthly bodies. And we who were raptured, along with the Old Testament and Tribulation saints, will be there in our glorified immortals bodies.
Those believers who survive the Tribulation will enter the Millennial Kingdom in their mortal bodies, still retaining their sin nature, yet without the temptations to sin caused by Satan, for he will be locked in the abyss for the 1000 years of Christ's Millennial Reign.
We who return with Christ (Old Testament saints, Tribulation saints, and raptured New Testament church) will be in our glorified immortal bodies. Yet, in the Millennial Kingdom we will be in active fellowship with those who survived the Tribulation and are still in their mortal bodies. Those still in their mortal bodies will be marrying and raising families just as we do today.
Now, here is the kicker. All who are born during the Millennial Kingdom, because they are born in mortal bodies, will also be born with the innate sin nature inherited from Adam. So, they will need to personally receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, just as we do today. Those people will need to receive Christ - and although there will be no temptation from Satan's crew - we will still have to witness to them, i.e., encourage them to take the final step toward eternal life in Christ.
During the 1000 year Millennial Kingdom, even though the temptation of Satan and his demonic angels will not be present, there will be many born during that 1000 years who will not, out of neglect or just indifference, choose to personally receive Christ. At the end of the Millennium those who have not made a personal commitment to Christ will comprise a large number, billions. And, that is where Satan will get his army which he will lead against Jesus Christ and the holy city of Jerusalem in the final battle of history (Revelation 20:7-10).
In Revelation 20:1-3, we are told that Satan is locked in the abyss for 1000 years - and, then it tells us, "after these things (the 1000 years) he must be released for a short time." Why? Why must Satan be released one final time? So that all those born during the Millennium will have one final chance, using their God-given gift of "free will" - to follow Christ or to follow the world, Satan. For those who choose to follow Satan we are told:
So, who will return with Christ at His Second Coming in Glory?
Accompanying Him will be His Bride, in our fine linen, white and clean, wedding gown - now our victory gown. The Bride of Christ, the Old Testament saints, the Tribulation martyrs, and His angels will make up His returning army.
At the end of the seven year Tribulation, Christ will return to establish His 1000 year Millennial Kingdom on earth. He will sit upon the throne of David in Jerusalem and will be the world leader, the perfect theocracy (Luke 1:32–33). At His Second Coming, all believers in heaven (the church, Old Testament saints, and Tribulation martyrs) return with Him in our immortal bodies.
During the seven year Tribulation, Christ will anoint 144,000 Jews, 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes. These will be like having 144,000 super evangelists sharing the Word of God around the world. Why Jewish evangelists? Because the seven year Tribulation, the time of Jacob's Troubles (Jeremiah 30:7), is primarily the time set aside by God for the saving of His remnant of Israel, His people.
Although the Tribulation is primarily for the Jews, during the Tribulation, many people, Jews and Gentiles, will be saved - a multitude so great that it will be hard to count:
Who will populate the Millennial Kingdom? We who return with Christ at His Second Coming will be there in our glorified immortal bodies. And, at the end of the terrible Tribulation when Christ returns, although billions will have died during the Tribulation - there will be many survivors, believers and non-believers. What is Christ to do with these mortal survivors of the Tribulation? He will convene the Sheep and Goat Judgment (Matthew 25:31-46) and mortal non-believers who have survived the Tribulation will go into eternal punishment (Matthew 25:46). However, the believers who have survived the Tribulation will go into His Millennial Kingdom in their earthly mortal bodies (Matthew 25:34).
What will life be like in the Millennial Kingdom? Will there be death in the 1000 year Millennial Kingdom?
And, then the New Heaven, New Earth, and New Jerusalem (Isaiah 65:17-19, Revelation 21, 22:1-5).
Linda, in your previous comment you mention the New Heaven, the New Earth, and the New Jerusalem. Now, in this comment you continue that thought:
Above I have written quite a lot about the Millennial Kingdom of Christ. Now we shift gears and look ahead, after Satan and his demonic army have been dispatched, after all non-believers since the Creation have been resurrected from Hades/Torment and have been given their eternal immortal bodies to stand before Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment. They will go into eternal existence void of the presence of God, which is hell.
But, we believers - from Adam and Eve until the last person saved - will experience God creating His New Heaven, New Earth, and He will bring the New Jerusalem down from heaven. Will God destroy this earth and create a new one? Or will He refurbish this old one, making it better than the original Garden of Eden? Personally, I cannot say for sure either way. The Bible does not say specifically, so we cannot be dogmatic on this point.
But the following commentary excerpts from Pastor David Guzik seem to make sense. This commentary has a lot of good content, food for thought, on this closing phase of mortal earth time and the beginning of our glorious eternity in the presence of God. You will find it interesting to visit this Commentary link and read more:
Linda, my Friend, I realize that this is rather long. However, I would rather give more than you ask - and let us sift through, panning for gold, seeking any "golden nuggets" that may help us, you and me, in our understanding of God's Word. Too much is far better than too little.
With too much, we can skip over or discard that not needed in our present study. With too little, that one answer, that small needle in the haystack of eternity we need may not be there. So, my Friend, I pray that I have encouraged you, and all our Friends, to pan for eternal "golden nuggets" which will help us share the Word of God with others.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Linda, please forgive me for taking so long. As you requested, I am sharing this with only you. However, I believe this may also be helpful to others. With your permission I can remove your name in all places (or leave it, as you choose) - so that you and I can share this with many other people. Please let me know. Thank you and God bless, Bill
Linda Responds:
Bill thank you so much for all the time put into this for me. You answered so many questions for me. Yes, you can share this with others and put this on your Facebook. I think it could help people. Friends in Christ, Linda
First, I apologize for taking so long to respond to your e-mail. I pray that what I am sending you is a better answer because of the delay, than just shooting from the hip. Your e-mail reminds me of an excerpt from the Charles Swindoll Bible Study Guide "The Church: Purpose, Profile, Priorities." The first chapter begins: "Socrates was wise, it is said, not because he knew the right answers, but because he knew how to ask the right questions."
You do me an honor with your questions. So, let me begin by breaking your thoughts, comments, and questions down into bite-size and attempt to respond to each separately :
On 3/22/2015, 3:59 AM, you wrote regarding my Facebook Note "What Happens After We Die? - Does 'ANYONE' On The Timesdaily Forums Know?":
Bill, this is Linda. In today's forum I didn't understand a thing you said. I'm sorry. I've got (to) where I can't grasp things when they are over my head. I want to know so I can answer friends right on a certain subject. Please let this letter be between you and me for a while.
Linda, there will always be things we do not fully understand for now.
1 Corinthians 13:12, "For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face (with Jesus Christ). Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known."
When we get to heaven, we will have the greatest teacher that has ever been - for He created everything. Will we go from fuzzy thinking to knowing everything? No, that cannot be true; for if we could know everything we will be like God - and that was Lucifer/Satan's problem. He wanted to be like God (Isaiah 14:12-14).
And, in a greater sense, not having unlimited knowledge is a blessing. It means that throughout eternity, we will always be learning. Imagine that. No boredom there! Every day we will learn more - like being in the "Eternal Institute of Higher Learning" and having the greatest of all teachers. I can hardly wait to begin working toward that degree!
You wrote:
I have a personal relationship with my Lord. When I die I believe that my soul goes to heaven, but on the day of rapture, if I'm dead I will be resurrected from my grave into heaven and have a new body. (If I am still alive at the Rapture, then) In the twinkle of an eye after the people (who) are dead are caught up, then I will be caught up. I believe we will know each other, but will not love one more than another.
I am glad you bring up the Rapture. There are believers who deny that the Rapture will happen, but I will not go into that discussion at this time. Let me just say that John 14:1-3, 1 Corinthians 15:50-53, and 1 Thessalonians 13-18 definitely speak of Jesus Christ coming for His church, His body of believers.
And, I do believe in a PreTribulation Rapture, i.e., that Christ will come to take (catch up, harpazō, rapiemur, rapture) all believers from the earth before the beginning of the seven year Tribulation (Revelation 3:10, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 1 Thessalonians 5:9).
As believers, we may be dead or alive when the Rapture occurs. Either way, this presents no problem for believers. When we die in this mortal body - this lifeless body, this shell, goes into the grave. It truly does die in the sense that there is no longer any life in that decaying body. But, our soul/spirit, which lives eternally, goes directly into the presence of Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:22-23).
There are differing thoughts on the soul and spirit. We know the body is merely the physical part of us which allows us to interact with the world around us. And, when we die, that body goes into the grave as an empty shell. But, what is the soul and spirit? I look at our soul as being our human personality, that which makes us distinct and different from other people. Just as everyone has different fingerprints, I believe we each have different, but often similar, personalities. To me that is the soul.
And, I view the spirit as being our connection with God. God is Spirit (John 4:24) and the believing man/woman communes with Him, worships Him, in spirit. Because God is Spirit, we commune with Him in spirit. And because Jesus Christ resurrected and ascended in His immortal body, we will commune with Him in our immortal bodies after we are raptured.
Just as God is a Triune God and the three Persons of the Godhead, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, cannot be separated - we believers are also triune beings: body, soul, spirit. Eternally, our triune being will not be separated. Our mortal body will be replaced by an immortal body (1 Corinthians 15:50-53), eternally existing with our soul/spirit. In that sense, we are made in His image (Genesis 1:26).
Man was created to have a very personal, direct line of communication with God. We know from Genesis 3:8 that God would walk in the garden with Adam and Eve. That is very personal. Yet, when Adam disobeyed God, that personal connection was broken - the spiritual connection between God and man was broken. Immediately, man became "spiritually dead" bringing about our proclivity toward sin - and man began the process of physical death. Bodily deterioration, diseases, and illnesses are part of the dying process of the mortal body which was caused by Adam's fall.
Let me give you several excerpts to ponder. There are also links where you may read each article in more detail:
Genesis 1:26-27 indicates that there is something that makes humanity distinct from all the other creations. Human beings were intended to have a relationship with God, and as such, God created us with both material and immaterial parts. The material is obviously that which is tangible: the physical body, bones, organs, etc., and exists as long as the person is alive. The immaterial aspects are those which are intangible: soul, spirit, intellect, will, conscience, etc. These exist beyond the physical lifespan of the individual. (www.gotquestions.org/body-soul-spirit.html)
The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable (Hebrews 4:12). The soul is the essence of humanity’s being; it is who we are. The spirit is the aspect of humanity that connects with God. (www.gotquestions.org/soul-spirit.html
The Bible is not perfectly clear as to the nature of the human soul. But from studying the way the word soul is used in Scripture, we can come to some conclusions. Simply stated, the human soul is the part of a person that is not physical. It is the part of every human being that lasts eternally after the body experiences death. Genesis 35:18 describes the death of Rachel, Jacob’s wife, saying she named her son (Benjamin) “as her soul was departing.” From this we know that the soul is different from the body and that it continues to live after physical death. (www.gotquestions.org/human-soul.html)
The human spirit was damaged in the fall. When Adam sinned, his ability to fellowship with God was broken; he did not die physically that day, but he died spiritually. Ever since, the human spirit has borne the effects of the fall. Before salvation, a person is characterized as spiritually “dead” (Ephesians 2:1-5; Colossians 2:13). A relationship with Christ revitalizes our spirit and renews us day by day (2 Corinthians 4:16). (www.gotquestions.org/human-spirit.html)
In your comment above, you say:
When I die I believe that my soul goes to heaven, but on the day of rapture, if I'm dead, I will be resurrected from my grave into heaven and have a new body.
That is true. This fallen mortal body goes into the grave to decay back into dust (Genesis 3:19, Job 34:15, Ecclesiastes 3:20). And, our soul/spirit goes immediately into the presence of God. For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23).
1 Corinthians 15:51-52, "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead (believers in Christ) will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."
These two Scripture passages tell us that, at the Rapture when Christ comes to call home His church, his worldwide body of believers - those who have died before He comes for us will be raised first, as they should be. Then, in the twinkling of an eye (virtually an immeasurable time) after they rise, we believers who are still alive will be "snatched out, raptured" to join them and Jesus Christ in the air.
At that moment, we will all have our new glorified, immortal, incorruptible bodies, i.e., we will be like Him (1 John 3:2) in that we will have immortal bodies like His. We will not be divine deity, but we will be in our immortal bodies which are like the immortal human body He retained as He ascended into heaven.
Then, just as He led the Old Testament saints into heaven (Ephesians 4:8), He will lead we who have been raptured into heaven to be in the presence of God forever.
Next, in your comment above you say:
I believe we will know each other, but will not love one more than another.
True, we will love all the saints in heaven - for God is love, and all who will be in His presence eternally will know only love. But, since we still have our soul, through which we have special relationships with loved ones on earth - I believe we will still have these special relationships eternally. The Bible does not tell us that we will lose those precious memories.
We will not be man and wife. But, the ones for whom we have a special love on earth - will still be very special to us. Yet without any jealousies. On earth, I have had two special loves - my first wife, Betty, with whom I had a close relationship until her death in 2001, even long after we were no longer man and wife. And, my wife, Dory, who has been my special love for thirty-seven years (now thirty-nine years) and counting, will always be my special love into eternity. Will Dory be jealous of Betty? No. She was not jealous of her in our earthly lives; how could she be jealous in our "God is love" immortal lives? They will be sisters in Christ.
In heaven, my mother will always be my beloved mom. And, I believe that all my loved ones will continue to hold a special place in my heart. My immortal heart/soul will be big enough to encompass all of God's people in love - and to still have a special place for those who were so special to me on earth.
Next, you wrote:
The one thing I don't know - if I were to die today, do I go to that heaven where the streets are gold and, etc., - or (do I) go to another place until the Lord comes back and He builds the new Jerusalem and the new heaven? I'm very mixed up about that. Not that it matters, because I'm going to see my Lord. Just wanted to know your opinion.
Are there, or will there be, streets of gold in heaven? The abode of God will always be perfect, whether He is residing in the "third heaven" or in the New Jerusalem. The goldsmith puts newly mined gold into the smelter to remove impurities. If all impurities could be removed, the gold would be transparent. You will notice that gold is rated: the highest man-given rating for pure gold is 24 karat. But, is there anything in this fallen world which is pure? No, in this worldly existence, there will always be impurities. But, in God's presence all impurities will be removed and just as pure gold would be transparent, so will our eternal existence in the presence of God be - without impurities, transparent and glorified.
Heaven’s streets of gold are often referenced in song and poetry, but harder to find in the Bible. In fact, there is only one passage of Scripture that references streets of gold and that is in the Holy City, the New Jerusalem: “The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass” (Revelation 21:21). So does this verse tell us that there will literally be streets of gold in heaven? And, if so, what is the importance or significance of literal streets of gold?
The Greek word translated “gold” is chrusion, which can mean “gold, gold jewelry, or overlay.” So to translate it “gold” makes complete and perfect sense. In fact, struggles of interpretation often come up when people attempt to determine which parts of the Bible to take literally and which parts to take figuratively. A good rule of thumb when studying the Bible is to take everything literally, unless it doesn't make sense to do so. (www.gotquestions.org/streets-of-gold.html)
Now that we have discussed the Rapture, let's transition to the seven year Tribulation and the 1000 year Millennial Kingdom of Christ on earth.
Before the Tribulation (PreTribulation), when we die or are raptured from this mortal body - we will go directly into the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). Until His Second Coming, after the Tribulation, He is in heaven, the abode of God - and we, Old Testament saints, New Testament saints, i.e., the church, and the martyred Tribulation saints, will be in His heavenly presence.
In 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 Paul tells us that he was caught up into "the third heaven" - into Paradise. How many heavens are there? We can view our atmosphere as the first heaven, that which surrounds our world. The second heaven would be space, unfathomably huge, but still having limits set by God. And, the third heaven as defined by Paul is Paradise, the throne room of God.
If you recall, Old Testament saints resided in Hades/Paradise (Luke 16:19-31) until Christ died and was resurrected, leading them into heaven. Why? Because "no one" - Old Testament or New Testament - can enter the kingdom of God except through, or with, Jesus Christ (John 14:6). He had not yet come as the Incarnate God, the Messiah, to be our Sacrificial Lamb offering. So the Old Testament saints had to wait in Hades/Paradise for Him to come and lead them into heaven.
During the three days between His crucifixion/burial - and when He resurrected, I believe He spent that time celebrating and sharing the eternal Word of God with the saints waiting in the Bosom of Abraham, Hades/Paradise. And, then He led them into heaven (Ephesians 4:8) relocating Hades/Paradise to its new location, Heaven/Paradise.
The age in which one lives has no bearing on the immortality of their soul. As was stated previously, the main difference between the death of the saints before the crucifixion and resurrection of the Lord was that they were not granted immediate access to Heaven as we believers are now. Instead, they were gathered to a place of comfort and rest called Paradise which was located in Abraham’s Bosom in the heart of the Earth.
There they would abide until the atonement of their souls and the payment for their sins had been accomplished by the Lord Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross (Hebrews 10). After His resurrection they were loosed from this “holding area” (Ephesians 4:8-10) and were then able to enter into Heaven where they live to this day waiting for the resurrection of their glorified bodies. (www.learnthebible.org/where-are-the-old-testament-saints-today.html)
However, Hades/Torment (Luke 16:23) is still open for business and doing a landslide business. That is the place where, at their mortal death, all non-believers will go to wait, in full awareness, to be resurrected for their judgment. After the 1000 year Millennial Kingdom they will be resurrected into their immortal bodies to stand before Jesus Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) which is their final judgment of punishment before they go into an eternal existence void of God and His love, which can only be called hell.
Since His death, resurrection, and ascension - all believers who die go directly into His presence in heaven.
Was the Hades/Paradise of Luke 16:19-31 anything like the Roman Catholic purgatory? No, for the Roman Catholic concept of purgatory involves additional suffering, i.e., additional payment for sins committed in their mortal bodies.
Yet, when Jesus Christ died on the cross, He declared, "It is finished!" (John 19:30). That meant His full work of propitiation, atonement for the sins of all mankind, was finished. He had finished the work given Him by the Father. Now it is up to each individual person to either accept that free gift of eternal life which He purchased with His precious blood - or to reject that gift.
It is finished! Jesus' final word (tetelestai in the ancient Greek) is the cry of a winner. Jesus had finished His eternal purpose of the cross. It stands today as a finished work, the foundation of all Christian peace and faith, paying in full the debt we righteously owe to God. (Pastor David Guzik, Study Guide for John 19)
His crucifixion was "payment in full" for all sin - past, present, future - of all people (Romans 6:10, Hebrews 7:27, 9:12, 10:10). That was a "paid in full" pardon from our sin prison. All we have to do to receive that full pardon - is to accept His free gift of eternal life. When we, by grace through faith, receive Him as our personal Lord and Savior - we have eternal, never ending, life in Christ.
At His resurrection Christ closed down Hades/Paradise and moved it into heaven. It is now Heaven/Paradise or heavenly Paradise.
Because of that, until His Second Coming after the Tribulation, all believers who die, are raptured, or martyred - will go immediately into heaven, Paradise. Shortly after the Rapture, Israel will sign a seven year peace accord with the Antichrist - which begins the clock running for the seven year Tribulation on earth (Daniel 9:27).
During that seven years of Tribulation the church will be in heaven where we will stand before Christ at the Believers' Judgment (Bema Seat Judgment), a judgment of rewards, or lack of rewards, depending upon what we do in this mortal life. In other words, today are we living for Christ - or are we just "couch potato" Christians, saved but doing nothing to bring others into the family of Christ? That witnessing in His name is the "works" which should follow salvation for all believers.
Yet, the Believers' Judgment has another very important function. In this mortal life, when we become believers we still have the curse of our sin nature upon us. God cannot look upon sin (Habakkuk 1:13). We cannot work our way into heaven, for when He looks upon us any works, any good deeds, we might do to earn salvation - are as filthy rags in His sight (Isaiah 64:6). On our own, with all the works or good deeds we may attempt in an effort to work our way into heaven - God looks at us and sees only a cesspool. So, how do we get around that problem?
Simple. By the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ we are saved, sealed in Christ, and indwelled by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13, 2:8-9). The moment that happens, we have the righteousness of Jesus Christ attributed (imputed) to our account (Romans 3:21–22) - so when God looks at us, He does not see our meager, frail works. He sees only the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
Yet, as the Bride of Christ, we cannot participate in the Wedding Feast of the Lamb in our filthy garments, nor can we participate wearing borrowed gowns of righteousness. We must be able to approach the throne of God in our own clean, white robes of righteousness, our own gown of fine linen, clean, and bright. The purpose of the Bema Seat Judgment in heaven during the seven year Tribulation is two-fold: (1) to reward believers - and - (2) to robe us in our own fine linen, pure white wedding gowns drawn from the righteous acts of the saints (Revelation 19:8).
What are the rewards for believers? First, at the Rapture, ". . we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, . . ." in our immortal bodies (1 John 3:2).
Then, there are other rewards for believers:
(1) The Imperishable Crown - 1 Corinthians 9:24-25,
(2) The Crown of Rejoicing - 1 Thessalonians 2:19
(3) The Crown of Righteousness - 2 Timothy 4:8,
(4) The Crown of Glory - 1 Peter 5:4
(5) The Crown of Life - Revelation 2:10, James 1:12,
At the Believers' Judgment, we, the promised Bride of Christ, will receive our own robes of righteousness - created from the righteous acts of the saints - righteous acts of works done AFTER we have become believers and followers of Jesus Christ:
Revelation 19:8, "And to her (the church, the body of New Testament believers, the Bride of Christ) it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints."
The two key events for raptured believers in heaven will be: The Believers' Judgment where we will receive our own personal robes of righteousness, and the Wedding Feast of the Lamb when He takes us, His church, to be His Bride (Revelation 19:6-9).
Then at the end of the seven year Tribulation, He returns again to earth, His Second Coming in Glory. At His first coming, He came as the meek sacrificial Lamb of God. At His Second Coming in Glory, He comes as the conquering Lion of Judah (Revelation 19:11-21). This will happen at the end of the seven year Tribulation when He returns to earth to establish His Millennial Kingdom in Jerusalem, sitting upon the throne of David in Jerusalem.
Then, Linda, you ask:
Also do you think we will come back with the Lord during the Millennium and help the Lord win souls for Christ. I don't quite understand. He will build a new world and a new heaven. Where are we going to be?
First, let me clarify one point. All who enter into His Millennial Kingdom will be believers. No unbelievers will enter His Millennial Kingdom. So, at that point in time, there will be no need to win souls for Christ - for everyone in the Millennial Kingdom will be believers. Mortal believers who survived the Tribulation will enter the Millennium Kingdom in their earthly bodies. And we who were raptured, along with the Old Testament and Tribulation saints, will be there in our glorified immortals bodies.
Those believers who survive the Tribulation will enter the Millennial Kingdom in their mortal bodies, still retaining their sin nature, yet without the temptations to sin caused by Satan, for he will be locked in the abyss for the 1000 years of Christ's Millennial Reign.
We who return with Christ (Old Testament saints, Tribulation saints, and raptured New Testament church) will be in our glorified immortal bodies. Yet, in the Millennial Kingdom we will be in active fellowship with those who survived the Tribulation and are still in their mortal bodies. Those still in their mortal bodies will be marrying and raising families just as we do today.
Now, here is the kicker. All who are born during the Millennial Kingdom, because they are born in mortal bodies, will also be born with the innate sin nature inherited from Adam. So, they will need to personally receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, just as we do today. Those people will need to receive Christ - and although there will be no temptation from Satan's crew - we will still have to witness to them, i.e., encourage them to take the final step toward eternal life in Christ.
During the 1000 year Millennial Kingdom, even though the temptation of Satan and his demonic angels will not be present, there will be many born during that 1000 years who will not, out of neglect or just indifference, choose to personally receive Christ. At the end of the Millennium those who have not made a personal commitment to Christ will comprise a large number, billions. And, that is where Satan will get his army which he will lead against Jesus Christ and the holy city of Jerusalem in the final battle of history (Revelation 20:7-10).
In Revelation 20:1-3, we are told that Satan is locked in the abyss for 1000 years - and, then it tells us, "after these things (the 1000 years) he must be released for a short time." Why? Why must Satan be released one final time? So that all those born during the Millennium will have one final chance, using their God-given gift of "free will" - to follow Christ or to follow the world, Satan. For those who choose to follow Satan we are told:
Revelation 20:7-10, "Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
So, who will return with Christ at His Second Coming in Glory?
Revelation 19:14, "And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses."
Accompanying Him will be His Bride, in our fine linen, white and clean, wedding gown - now our victory gown. The Bride of Christ, the Old Testament saints, the Tribulation martyrs, and His angels will make up His returning army.
At the end of the seven year Tribulation, Christ will return to establish His 1000 year Millennial Kingdom on earth. He will sit upon the throne of David in Jerusalem and will be the world leader, the perfect theocracy (Luke 1:32–33). At His Second Coming, all believers in heaven (the church, Old Testament saints, and Tribulation martyrs) return with Him in our immortal bodies.
At the second coming, these covenants will be fulfilled as Israel is re-gathered from the nations (Matthew 24:31), converted (Zechariah 12:10–14), and restored to the land under the rule of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Bible speaks of the conditions during the millennium as a perfect environment physically and spiritually. It will be a time of peace (Micah 4:2–4; Isaiah 32:17–18), joy (Isaiah 61:7, 10), and comfort (Isaiah 40:1–2).
The Bible also tells us that only believers will enter the millennial kingdom. Because of this, it will be a time of obedience (Jeremiah 31:33), holiness (Isaiah 35:8), truth (Isaiah 65:16), and the knowledge of God (Isaiah 11:9, Habakkuk 2:14). Christ will rule as king (Isaiah 9:3–7; 11:1–10). Nobles and governors will also rule (Isaiah 32:1; Matthew 19:28), and Jerusalem will be the political center of the world (Zechariah 8:3). (www.gotquestions.org/millennium.html)
During the seven year Tribulation, Christ will anoint 144,000 Jews, 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes. These will be like having 144,000 super evangelists sharing the Word of God around the world. Why Jewish evangelists? Because the seven year Tribulation, the time of Jacob's Troubles (Jeremiah 30:7), is primarily the time set aside by God for the saving of His remnant of Israel, His people.
Although the Tribulation is primarily for the Jews, during the Tribulation, many people, Jews and Gentiles, will be saved - a multitude so great that it will be hard to count:
Revelation 7:9-10, "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, 'Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!' "
Who will populate the Millennial Kingdom? We who return with Christ at His Second Coming will be there in our glorified immortal bodies. And, at the end of the terrible Tribulation when Christ returns, although billions will have died during the Tribulation - there will be many survivors, believers and non-believers. What is Christ to do with these mortal survivors of the Tribulation? He will convene the Sheep and Goat Judgment (Matthew 25:31-46) and mortal non-believers who have survived the Tribulation will go into eternal punishment (Matthew 25:46). However, the believers who have survived the Tribulation will go into His Millennial Kingdom in their earthly mortal bodies (Matthew 25:34).
What will life be like in the Millennial Kingdom? Will there be death in the 1000 year Millennial Kingdom?
David Guzik: Study Guide for Isaiah 65
www.studylight.org/commentaries/guz/view.cgi?bk=22&ch=65
2. (20-25) The blessed state of the millennial earth.
Isaiah 65:20-25, "No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed. They shall build houses and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. They shall not build and another inhabit; They shall not plant and another eat; For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
They shall not labor in vain, Nor bring forth children for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD, And their offspring with them. 'It shall come to pass That before they call, I will answer; And while they are still speaking, I will hear. The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, The lion shall eat straw like the ox, And dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,' Says the LORD."
a. No more shall an infant from there live but a few days … for the child shall die one hundred years old: Quickly - as is the prophetic habit - Isaiah shifts gears (from Isaiah 65:17-19), and now speaks not of the eternal state, but of the millennial earth. There will be death in the millennial earth, but in the transformed biology and ecology of the world under the reign of Jesus Christ, people will live incredibly longer, as they did in the days before the flood.
i. In the millennial earth, people will live so long that if someone dies being (only) one hundred years old, people will consider that one accursed.
And, then the New Heaven, New Earth, and New Jerusalem (Isaiah 65:17-19, Revelation 21, 22:1-5).
Linda, in your previous comment you mention the New Heaven, the New Earth, and the New Jerusalem. Now, in this comment you continue that thought:
Will (we) be going back and forth - and will there will be animals in heaven. I love animals, but I am not going todie(be upset) if they aren't there, like some people would. I just want to be with the Lord, and (with) the church praising my Lord. I know (this is) a lot of questions for you. Please answer them very plain to me if you will. Friends in Christ, Linda
Above I have written quite a lot about the Millennial Kingdom of Christ. Now we shift gears and look ahead, after Satan and his demonic army have been dispatched, after all non-believers since the Creation have been resurrected from Hades/Torment and have been given their eternal immortal bodies to stand before Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment. They will go into eternal existence void of the presence of God, which is hell.
But, we believers - from Adam and Eve until the last person saved - will experience God creating His New Heaven, New Earth, and He will bring the New Jerusalem down from heaven. Will God destroy this earth and create a new one? Or will He refurbish this old one, making it better than the original Garden of Eden? Personally, I cannot say for sure either way. The Bible does not say specifically, so we cannot be dogmatic on this point.
But the following commentary excerpts from Pastor David Guzik seem to make sense. This commentary has a lot of good content, food for thought, on this closing phase of mortal earth time and the beginning of our glorious eternity in the presence of God. You will find it interesting to visit this Commentary link and read more:
Pastor David Guzik, Study Guide for Revelation 21
www.studylight.org/commentaries/guz/view.cgi?bk=65&ch=21
b. A new heaven and a new earth: The idea of a new earth, with a new atmosphere and sky is a familiar theme in the Scriptures. Many of the prophets, both Old and New Testaments, spoke to this new heaven and new earth.
c. New heaven … new earth: The ancient Greek word translated new here (kaine) means "new in character, 'fresh'." It doesn't mean "recent" or "new in time." This isn't just the next heaven and the next earth; this is the better heaven and better earth replacing the old (the first earth had passed away).
i. Though some disagree, such as Seiss, who argues passionately that this earth will never be destroyed - we should also understand that this is truly a new heaven and a new earth, not merely a "remade" heaven and earth. We know this because Jesus said that heaven and earth shall pass away, but His word would live forever (Luke 21:33). Also, in Isaiah 65:17 God says prophetically that He will create a new heaven and a new earth, and the ancient Hebrew word for "create" (bara) means to "create out of nothing" - instead of re-fashioning existing material.
a. The holy city, New Jerusalem: This is the Jerusalem of hope (Hebrews 12:22), the Jerusalem above (Galatians 4:26), the place of our real citizenship (Philippians 3:20).
i. The terms holy and new distinguish the city. Because it is holy and new, it is different from any earthly city. The name Jerusalem gives it continuity with earth, especially with the place of our redemption.
ii. It is significant that this glorious dwelling place of God and His people is described as the holy city. Cities are places where there are many people, and people interact with each other. This isn't isolation, but a perfect community of the people of God.
Linda, my Friend, I realize that this is rather long. However, I would rather give more than you ask - and let us sift through, panning for gold, seeking any "golden nuggets" that may help us, you and me, in our understanding of God's Word. Too much is far better than too little.
With too much, we can skip over or discard that not needed in our present study. With too little, that one answer, that small needle in the haystack of eternity we need may not be there. So, my Friend, I pray that I have encouraged you, and all our Friends, to pan for eternal "golden nuggets" which will help us share the Word of God with others.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
No comments:
Post a Comment