Our Early Morning Theology Discussion!

Many times over the years I have joked that while God matched us well, Dory and I have often been like two ships passing in the night.  Why do I say that?  Glad you asked.  I am pretty much a night person, while Dory loves getting up very early to read her Bible and pray.  Many times I have worked late on the computer and as I am going into the bedroom in the wee hours, Dory is coming out to get a cup of coffee, read, and pray.

Last night that worked out very well.  About 3:30 AM as I left the computer room and walked toward the bedroom, I noticed the light on in the kitchen downstairs.  Dory was up.  I went down and while she was preparing her cup of tea, we begin what I guess you could call a good Bible study discussion, but maybe more of a Theology Discussion. 

Our copy of the Grace In Focus magazine, published by the Grace Evangelical Society, had arrived and that began our discussion.  And I must say that I view this magazine as the best Christian theology magazine on the market - and I love the price. It  is free.  I look forward to reading every issue.

Let me just step back a moment and explain why I call it a Theology Discussion.  Three of the leading Baptist-flavored theologies today are the Calvinist on one end of the theology spectrum, the Arminians on the other end of the spectrum, and somewhere in the middle is the Free Grace Movement theology - which is closer to my position, but not fully.

I am not saying that folks who follow those theologies are not my Christian brethren, for a true believer is saved eternally - regardless if he/she believes in Calvinist Predestination, Arminian Loss of Salvation, or the Free Grace and their "dump the repentance" stance.

As Dory was getting her tea, I showed her our copy of the Grace In Focus magazine and particularly the first article "Why Do We Make It So Difficult to Be Saved?" by Dr. Bob Wilkin.  In the article Bob is responding to a question from a couple, Hal and Wanda:

However, I get Hal and Wanda’s point. Why would anyone in his right mind reject out of hand that one will spend eternity with the Lord in His kingdom if he simply believes in Jesus?  Shouldn’t people at least be attracted to that message?  Yes.  They should.  But tradition is a powerful thing. 

People learn to view the Bible and the condition for everlasting life in a certain way.  And that way makes sense to them.  It seems fair to them that bad people go to hell and good people go to the kingdom.

The (Free Grace) faith-alone message means that bad people can go to heaven when they die. Thank God it does, “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).

As I told Dory, "I can see where Bob is coming from, but in this I disagree on two points:  (1) Salvation/Justification without Repentance and (2) my definition of "bad people" must differ from his."

First let me address the Free Grace doctrine of "Faith without Repentance."  Free Grace tells us that Repentance is a "work" - and therefore negates the teaching of Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."    

And since they see Repentance as a work, that cannot be a part of Justification.  I agree that Baptismal Regeneration is not Biblical, for baptism is a physical thing one does AFTER believing and receiving Christ.  But since Repentance is spiritual and not a physical thing one does, how can one be saved without repenting?  To me that is like diving into a lake without getting wet.  It cannot be done.  So that part of the Free Grace theology I must reject.

Now to say that "bad people" can go to heaven when they die - we need to define "bad people."  I googled "bad people" and found this partial list:

Adolf Hitler - Joseph Stalin - Mao Zedong - Pol Pot - Heinrich Himmler - Saddam Hussein - Idi Amin

I would be very hard pressed to say that any of these guys are in heaven today.

But again, I believe that Dr. Bob Wilkin was really referring to "sinners" and not "bad people."  And in that sense, he is right, “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).

I believe Bob was thinking of issues such as homosexuality, abortion, adultery, theft, and other such sins.  And I have often written that the sin is not what keeps folks from being saved, it is the lifestyle.  A homosexual or lesbian can be a Christian.  But a homosexual or lesbian who is living that lifestyle - cannot be a Christian believer for that lifestyle is an abomination to God.

So, yes, a homosexual or lesbian who is truly a Christian believer and living it, will go to heaven when they die.  The Bible assures us of that.

Speaking of heaven, that discussion led to another problem in my mind.  For many years I have admired Dr. W. A. Criswell,
senior pastor of the First Baptist Church of Dallas for 50 years, twice was president of the Southern Baptist Convention, founder of Criswell College, and author of 54 books. 

In my study of Eschatology since 1991, I have two books which I consider my go-to books on the End Times:  (1) Dr. Criswell's book "Expository Sermons On Revelation" which was actual sermons in the pulpit which were later transcribed and put into book form, and (2) "The Revelation Record," by Dr. Henry M. Morris, which is a verse by verse walk though the book of Revelation.

Recently I have been reading a book co-authored by Dr. Criswell and Dr. Paige Patterson, president of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary.  The book is titled "Heaven" and was published by Tyndale House Publishers in 1994.

In this book, Dr. Criswell tells us that "They (believers) are not in the fullness of heaven, they are waiting in Paradise. . . The fullness of heaven will be ours when Jesus comes again (the Rapture) and our bodies are resurrected.  We will be like the Savior, in our immortalized, glorified bodies."  "Heaven," page 31.  And on page 30, Dr. Criswell tells us, "When a believer dies, he goes to paradise."  And he reminds us that in Luke 23:43 Jesus tells the thief on the cross, "Today you will be with me in Paradise."  

Yet the apostle Paul tells us in 2 Corinthians 5:8, "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."            

So I guess my question would be:  "Is Dr. Criswell saying that the believer stays in Hades / Paradise until the Rapture - or is he saying that, as I believe, Paradise has been moved into heaven - and is now Heaven / Paradise?"

Dr. J. Vernon McGee, in his commentary on Ephesians 4:8-10, agrees with me. Or I should say that I agree with him.

Jesus tells us what is needed to enter heaven:

John 3:3, "Jesus answered and said to him, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.' "

John 14:6, "Jesus said to him, 'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.  NO ONE comes to the Father except through Me.' "

In Hebrews 11, aka, The Faith Hall Of Fame chapter, we read of many of the Old Testament believers, i.e., Abel, Enoch, Abraham, Sarah, Noah, etc. - who believed God.  But as we have just read from John, until Jesus died, went into Hades  / Paradise, and was resurrected - all believers from the OT and until the thief on the cross - had to stay in Hades / Paradise.  While non-believers were in Hades/Torment. 

In Ephesians 4:8 we read that Jesus led those Hades/Paradise believers into heaven - the first to enter into the Father's presence.  In effect, Jesus closed the door of Hades/Paradise - out of business - and opened the door of Heaven/Paradise. 

Since then, as the apostle Paul tells us in 2 Corinthians 5:8, "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."     The Lord Jesus is now in heaven, sitting at the right hand of the Father, and all who have died in faith are with him.

Now 2 Corinthians 15:50-53 tells us that mortal bodies cannot enter into God's heaven.  So we have to be in our glorified bodies.  This Scripture passage is speaking of the Rapture - so before the Rapture we will enter heaven in our spiritual bodies. 

And at the Rapture we will stand before Christ at the Believers' Judgment (Bema Seat) and will receive all rewards we have earned - and most important we will receive our glorified bodies that as we are told in 1 John 3:2, "Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is."  

What does it mean that "we shall be like Him"?   Jesus ascended in His glorified body - and we shall have a glorified body like His. But we will NOT be deity.  Only God is deity.

Therefore, in this respect I disagree with Dr. Criswell.  We will not go into Hades / Paradise since Jesus has ascended into heaven. We will go into Heaven / Paradise in our spiritual bodies.

How about the Calvinist Predestination?  Did God really condemn billions of people to eternal hell and suffering with NO chance of salvation - before the Creation?

Here, as in all Bible interpretation - I believe we must rely upon two things:  First, the Bible is the sole authority on all things of God and man's salvation.  Second, I believe that when man is interpreting the Bible, he must rely upon two things, (1) that the Bible is the LITERAL Written Word of God, and (2) common sense.

Knowing that the Bible is to be read Literally, we read John 3:16, "For God so loved the WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."               

To accept Calvinist Predestination, one has to interpret the word "WORLD" to mean "only those chosen as Elect before the creation."   And there is no way, using a Literal interpretation and common sense - anyone can change the meaning of world like that.

And WHOEVER means WHOEVER, i.e., everyone in the WORLD who believes in and has put his/her faith in Christ.

Looking at Arminianism's claim that some sin, even some small unknown sin, can cause a true believer to lose his eternal salvation - cannot be found in the Bible. 

John 10:28-29, "And I give them ETERNAL life, and they will NEVER perish; and NO ONE will snatch them out of My hand.  My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and NO ONE is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."
For the Arminian teaching that we can lose eternal salvation - ETERNAL must no longer mean "never ending" - and NEVER must mean "well, sometimes" - and NO ONE must not mean "NO ONE."

In other words, for the Arminian teaching to be true - that would mean that Jesus Christ lied to us.  Does anyone believe that Jesus Christ lied to us?  Common sense tells me that God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) cannot lie.

Therefore, in the Theology Spectrum, I cannot stand with either end, Calvinist nor Arminian.  So I am standing somewhere in the middle, beside the Free Grace Movement - but not with them on the "Salvation without Repentance" issue.  We are close, but not standing in quite the same spot.  That said, I read their Grace In Focus magazine from cover to cover the day I receive it.

And this Theology Discussion took Dory and me from about 3:30 AM to 4:45 AM - a really good Theological Bible study.  Now you know why God paired us 44 years ago - even if we do sleep on different shifts.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill 

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