On Facebook Today A Post Declared Rick Warren "America's Pastor" ~ Let
me set the record straight. I have been a Conservative Christian of
the Baptist Flavor for 33 years - and Rick Warren would NEVER be my
pastor. But rather than just saying that, let me explain by sharing an
e-mail dialogue from 2014. A long time Christian brother and Friend
sent me an e-mail asking:
My thoughts on Kenneth Copeland:
He is absolutely a "Name It And Claim It" Prosperity preacher, aka "Word of Faith" Movement - cut along the same lines as Fred Price, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Hagin, Paul Crouch, Creflo Dollar, Oral Roberts, Joel Osteen, et al.
I have heard him teach that God is about 6'3" tall, weighing about 200 pounds. From a web site:
I personally saw him on the 700 Club about ten years ago. He was there to push his new book on prayer. And speaking to Pat Robertson, he said that his new book teaches that, "When you pray, NEVER pray, 'Lord, Your will be done!' That would be a sin." Yet, in the garden of Gethsemane Jesus prayed, "Father, not My will, but Your will be done." So according to Kenneth Copeland - Jesus sinned when He prayed that prayer.
Regarding Rick Warren:
I believe he is a sincere Christian believer - and I believe he started out on the right track. But I believe he was pulled astray by Robert Schuller: Schuller's Church Leadership/Marketing program, Schuller's World Religion Ecumenical program, and Schuller's Reform/Social Theology. The best I can say about Rick Warren now is that he is a sincere Christian believer who teaches a Social Theology - more than a Salvation Theology.
Several years ago he started new "health related" programs in his church. But none of the three men he put in charge of the program were Christians. A pastor does not promote men to leadership in the church who are not believers; but Rick Warren did.
A funny side note on that incident: When I saw this program being announced on Facebook, I wrote a response saying that I do not agree and and that I believe a pastor should only appoint Christian leaders in his church. At that same time that I wrote that response, a Filipina Friend posted a comment praising Rick Warren's new program.
It was totally a coincidence that she and I posted within minutes of one another. But, she got so mad that she unFriended me on Facebook and, to this day, does not speak to me. Neither she nor her husband will be my Friends on Facebook. When this happened I wrote her a note telling her that my post was not in response to her - but it was just me sharing my feelings on a situation with which I disagree. And assured her that I did not even know that she was posting a comment. She would not hear it. And to this day will not speak to me.
Back on track, I believe Warren's "Forty Days of Purpose" program has been very detrimental to the church body. The first problem I had with it was that churches were encouraged to replace their weekly Bible study with a study of his Forty Days of Purpose book. In other words, for 40 weeks (almost a year) - what was supposed to be a weekly study of the Bible became a weekly study of Rick Warren's book. The church groups may have still called it Bible Study, but it was really a Rick Warren Theology Study.
Also in his Purpose Driven book he quotes Gene Peterson's "The Message" (which I view as a commentary at best, and not a Bible) far too much - when he should have been quoting Scripture from the Bible.
I left two different Bible study groups when they started Rick Warren's 40-week program. And I posted my dislike for that program in my Friends Ministry eNewsletter. On the East Coast, I believe in North Carolina, there was a group set up (can't say for sure that Rick Warren set it up) whose sole purpose in life was to travel around the country teaching churches how to set up Forty Days of Purpose programs in their churches.
I know of at least one church in Arkansas which split over that being brought into their church. And according to the report I read at that time - the man in charge of this Forty Days of Purpose program advised the church leader to just let them leave, for they are only trouble makers. I can't say specifically, but I believe that also happened in other churches.
When I wrote my eNewsletter speaking out against this program - the man in charge of the Forty Days of Purpose seminars sent me an e-mail threatening to sue me if I did not stop writing against their program. I did not stop, and never heard from him again.
So, to summarize: Kenneth Copeland? Stay as far away as possible. Rick Warren? I have been to Saddleback Church several times. But even if I still lived in Orange County I would NOT be a member there.
My Friend, Paul, asked for the short version. Believe it or not -- this IS my short version! Now you can see why when I speak at church, after a few minutes my coach, Dory, is always giving me the "finger across the throat" signal to shut up and sit down. I have no idea why she thinks I talk too much.
God bless, Bill
Uncle Bill!
How are you? What are your thoughts on Kenneth Copeland and his teaching/ministries? Also Rick Warren, and the Purpose Driven Church/Teachings. Just basic, simple thoughts please! I know what I am thinking, but want confirmation from a fellow believer! Thanks, Paul
How are you? What are your thoughts on Kenneth Copeland and his teaching/ministries? Also Rick Warren, and the Purpose Driven Church/Teachings. Just basic, simple thoughts please! I know what I am thinking, but want confirmation from a fellow believer! Thanks, Paul
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
My thoughts on Kenneth Copeland:
He is absolutely a "Name It And Claim It" Prosperity preacher, aka "Word of Faith" Movement - cut along the same lines as Fred Price, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Hagin, Paul Crouch, Creflo Dollar, Oral Roberts, Joel Osteen, et al.
I have heard him teach that God is about 6'3" tall, weighing about 200 pounds. From a web site:
- God is a spirit-being with a
body, complete with eyes, and eyelids, ears, nostrils, a
mouth, hands and fingers, and feet. (Kenneth Copeland ministry
letter, 21 July 1977.)
- The Bible said He measured the
heavens with a 9 inch span. Now the span is the difference,
distance between the end of the thumb and the end of the
little Finger. And, and that Bible said, in fact the amplified
translation translates the Hebrew text that way. That He
measured out the heavens with a 9 inch span. Well, I got a
ruler and measured mine, and my span’s 8 3/4 inches long. So
now God’s span is a quarter of an inch, a quarter inch longer
than mine.
So you see, that faith didn’t come billowing out of some giant monster somewhere. It came out of the heart of a being that is very uncanny the way He’s very much like you and me. A being that stands somewhere around 6′ 2 , 6′ 3, that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple of hundred pounds, little better, has a span of 8 and, I mean nine inches across – stood up and said Light be [Let it be?], and this universe situated itself and went into motion. Glory to God. (Spirit, Soul, and a Body 1 1985, audio tape #01-0601, side 1)
I personally saw him on the 700 Club about ten years ago. He was there to push his new book on prayer. And speaking to Pat Robertson, he said that his new book teaches that, "When you pray, NEVER pray, 'Lord, Your will be done!' That would be a sin." Yet, in the garden of Gethsemane Jesus prayed, "Father, not My will, but Your will be done." So according to Kenneth Copeland - Jesus sinned when He prayed that prayer.
Regarding Rick Warren:
I believe he is a sincere Christian believer - and I believe he started out on the right track. But I believe he was pulled astray by Robert Schuller: Schuller's Church Leadership/Marketing program, Schuller's World Religion Ecumenical program, and Schuller's Reform/Social Theology. The best I can say about Rick Warren now is that he is a sincere Christian believer who teaches a Social Theology - more than a Salvation Theology.
Several years ago he started new "health related" programs in his church. But none of the three men he put in charge of the program were Christians. A pastor does not promote men to leadership in the church who are not believers; but Rick Warren did.
A funny side note on that incident: When I saw this program being announced on Facebook, I wrote a response saying that I do not agree and and that I believe a pastor should only appoint Christian leaders in his church. At that same time that I wrote that response, a Filipina Friend posted a comment praising Rick Warren's new program.
It was totally a coincidence that she and I posted within minutes of one another. But, she got so mad that she unFriended me on Facebook and, to this day, does not speak to me. Neither she nor her husband will be my Friends on Facebook. When this happened I wrote her a note telling her that my post was not in response to her - but it was just me sharing my feelings on a situation with which I disagree. And assured her that I did not even know that she was posting a comment. She would not hear it. And to this day will not speak to me.
Back on track, I believe Warren's "Forty Days of Purpose" program has been very detrimental to the church body. The first problem I had with it was that churches were encouraged to replace their weekly Bible study with a study of his Forty Days of Purpose book. In other words, for 40 weeks (almost a year) - what was supposed to be a weekly study of the Bible became a weekly study of Rick Warren's book. The church groups may have still called it Bible Study, but it was really a Rick Warren Theology Study.
Also in his Purpose Driven book he quotes Gene Peterson's "The Message" (which I view as a commentary at best, and not a Bible) far too much - when he should have been quoting Scripture from the Bible.
I left two different Bible study groups when they started Rick Warren's 40-week program. And I posted my dislike for that program in my Friends Ministry eNewsletter. On the East Coast, I believe in North Carolina, there was a group set up (can't say for sure that Rick Warren set it up) whose sole purpose in life was to travel around the country teaching churches how to set up Forty Days of Purpose programs in their churches.
I know of at least one church in Arkansas which split over that being brought into their church. And according to the report I read at that time - the man in charge of this Forty Days of Purpose program advised the church leader to just let them leave, for they are only trouble makers. I can't say specifically, but I believe that also happened in other churches.
When I wrote my eNewsletter speaking out against this program - the man in charge of the Forty Days of Purpose seminars sent me an e-mail threatening to sue me if I did not stop writing against their program. I did not stop, and never heard from him again.
So, to summarize: Kenneth Copeland? Stay as far away as possible. Rick Warren? I have been to Saddleback Church several times. But even if I still lived in Orange County I would NOT be a member there.
My Friend, Paul, asked for the short version. Believe it or not -- this IS my short version! Now you can see why when I speak at church, after a few minutes my coach, Dory, is always giving me the "finger across the throat" signal to shut up and sit down. I have no idea why she thinks I talk too much.
God bless, Bill
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