IN THE 2014 ELECTION PERIOD, tempers flared and nasty comments
were tossed about. But, that was nothing compared to this 2016 election
season. In my lifetime, I have not seem a more hotly debated
and contested presidential election. Matter of fact, the
presidential race was so hot - that many folks forgot that we
were also voting for senators, congressmen, etc. As a result, in
California when we finally had a chance to elect a Conservative
senator for the first time in many decades - it seems the GOP
forgot to nominate a candidate.
So, because our only candidates were two extremely Liberal ladies - guess what California elected to the Senate. You're right. California sent another Barbara Boxer look-alike to the Senate. I am not sure if the GOP just dropped the ball - or if the California GOP has become a nest of RINOs. Either way - California lost!
Why am I rehashing yesterday's news? Well, for several reasons: (1) to ask you to reflect upon all the nasty rhetoric we have seen in this past year of the presidential campaign, and (2) to remind you that, while we (Californians collectively) were spewing venom toward Clinton or Trump - we let an important race, a great opportunity, fall through the cracks - the opportunity to elect a Conservative Senator from California. Only God knows when we will get another good opportunity.
And, all of this goes hand in hand with the dialogue I had with a TimesDaily Religion Forum Friend several years ago. She called upon us on that forum to stop the name calling and denigration - and have civil discussion which will benefit everyone. I concurred with her then, and I still do concur with her today. I love dialogues for we all can learn through them - but I hate arguments, name calling, and divisiveness. With that said, let me share with you our dialogue from 2014. God bless, Bill
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
So, because our only candidates were two extremely Liberal ladies - guess what California elected to the Senate. You're right. California sent another Barbara Boxer look-alike to the Senate. I am not sure if the GOP just dropped the ball - or if the California GOP has become a nest of RINOs. Either way - California lost!
Why am I rehashing yesterday's news? Well, for several reasons: (1) to ask you to reflect upon all the nasty rhetoric we have seen in this past year of the presidential campaign, and (2) to remind you that, while we (Californians collectively) were spewing venom toward Clinton or Trump - we let an important race, a great opportunity, fall through the cracks - the opportunity to elect a Conservative Senator from California. Only God knows when we will get another good opportunity.
And, all of this goes hand in hand with the dialogue I had with a TimesDaily Religion Forum Friend several years ago. She called upon us on that forum to stop the name calling and denigration - and have civil discussion which will benefit everyone. I concurred with her then, and I still do concur with her today. I love dialogues for we all can learn through them - but I hate arguments, name calling, and divisiveness. With that said, let me share with you our dialogue from 2014. God bless, Bill
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
In a recent Religion Forum
discussion titled "Serious Discussions/Debates?" a
Forum Friend posted very wise words. I encourage all of
us to read her comments and jointly work to make our Forum
a more pleasant community in which we can share ideas -
and even agree to disagree when appropriate - without
attacks, name calling, or inappropriate comments.
She tells us (underline emphasis is mine):
My Friend, your posts always interest and intrigue me. So, let's chat about this latest one.
You write:
Yes, spiritual beliefs are personal. Yet, when you say "However you find your way to God, or not, is up to each person" - that needs to be expanded upon. I am assuming we both agree that Jesus Christ is God the Son, the Incarnate God, sharing all the same attributes as God the Father. Therefore the authority of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are equal and unquestionable.
Jesus tells us, "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me" (John 14:6).
In this Scripture verse, He is telling us that there is only one way to God - through Jesus Christ. This means that anyone wanting to spend eternity in the presence of God - MUST do it through having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ - the only Way.
This is also illustrated in the true story found in Luke 16:19-31 - where, at that time, all Old Testament saints, i.e., believers, are still residing in Hades/Paradise (the Bosom of Abraham). When Jesus is crucified, He goes into Hades/Paradise and leads those Old Testament saints from Hades/Paradise into heaven (Ephesians 4:8). Paradise is now Heaven/Paradise; the old Hades version has been permanently closed.
However, the Hades/Torment we find in Luke 16:19-31 is still open and doing a booming business. It is still the temporary residence of all who have died while still denying Jesus Christ. After the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), all those non-believers will all go to their eternal abode, forever void of the presence of God, which can only be called hell.
Then, you write:
Thank you, my Friend, I appreciate your honesty - and your compliment.
And:
First, I am not sure where to find the Scripture verse you mention. Do you have thoughts on where to find it?
Could you be thinking of these Scripture verses?
If so, we must complete the latter one, Romans 3:23:
Yes, every person born into this mortal world has an innate sin nature inherited from the fall of Adam into disobedience. None of us can be righteous in and of ourselves. But, God, in His love, grace, and mercy - has provided a path to eternal life. That path is Jesus Christ and the very moment we receive Him as Lord and Savior - we become children of God (John 1:12), we are indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13) until the day of our redemption from this mortal world (Ephesians 4:30) by death or by the rapture.
My Friend, you write, "Who am I to say he is wrong? He is right, for him."
Personally, I am not concerned about Bill Gray being right. I am concerned about God's Word being right. Just as in a court of law, it does not matter what the attorney says - the only thing that matters is what is written in the books of law. In the same way, it does not matter what Bill Gray says, it only matters what is written in the Bible, God's Written Word.
And, in the Bible, we are told:
It could not be written more clearly than that. If you have a personal relationship with the Son of God - you HAVE eternal life. If you do not have a personal relationship with the Son of God - you DO NOT HAVE eternal life.
Having eternal life means spending eternity, never ending, in the presence of God, which is heaven.
Not having eternal life means spending eternity, never ending, out of the presence of God, which is hell.
Your comment about politics I will skip. I will just leave it that I am politically a Conservative.
Finally, you write:
I will add a triple AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! to that! There is never a reason to resort of name calling, nasty comments, or outright derogatory comments.
My Friend, I agree with you. When we can have discussions which are civil, even if we disagree, we can all learn from the discussions. But, when posts sink to the level of personal defamation and name calling - absolutely nothing is accomplished, nothing is learned.
I join you in sincerely asking ALL of our Forum Friends to give serious thought to what you have posted - and, when posting, not just blurt out their first impulse.
Words have consequences. Words, like a bullet fired from a gun - cannot be taken back once they are spoken or posted on a forum. Think, consider your words, then respond. If we all will do this - we can have the absolute best Forum to be found anywhere.
Let me close by sharing this confession. Many times I have been angered by what someone has written. Many times I have wanted to respond in anger - just put it all out there. Many times I have impulsively written an angry response.
But, praise God, because I have the Great Convicter, the Holy Spirit, living within me - and because I do pray as I am writing (not always, but most of the time) - by the time I have vented my feelings through writing that response, I can delete it and not post what I have written in anger. That works for me.
I am sure that, whether you have the Holy Spirit living within or not, that process can still work for you. Even if you are not convicted by the Holy Spirit, you do have a sense of civil common decency living within (Romans 2:14-15) - which will tell you that an angry, nasty response will accomplish nothing other than a momentary sense of revenge.
My Forum Friend, thank you for raising this issue for our consideration. I pray that our other Forum Friends will heed your inspired words.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
She tells us (underline emphasis is mine):
To me, religious or spiritual beliefs are personal. However you find your way to God, or not, is up to each person. Could be a life-long quest. I admire people who have strong convictions, even if they are not the same as mine. We have brains to think for ourselves, to find what is right for ourselves. People with different beliefs don't bother me. Hypocrites don't bother me because I'm sure I have been one. Peoples' beliefs evolve over their lifespans.
Although I don't agree with what Bill says, I have learned some things from him. Who am I to say he is wrong? He is right, for him. If he feels I am wrong, too bad, doesn't affect me. I have been told this before, it says something in the bible like "Yea, though you think you are right, you are wrong." Don't care. How do I know all this? God/my mind told me, same as God told Bill he is right.
(The) Same with political beliefs. Am I right? Yes, for me. Are your differing political views right? Yes, for you. To me, to get into name calling arguments just because you have different beliefs is pointless. Ignore the views you don't agree with, stop taking it personally. Be the better person, meaning don't resort to name calling. That doesn't solve anything. Unless you are stealing, killing, or molesting little kids - live and let live. Be nice. Take care of the earth.
My Friend, your posts always interest and intrigue me. So, let's chat about this latest one.
You write:
To me, religious or spiritual beliefs are personal. However you find your way to God, or not, is up to each person. Could be a life-long quest. I admire people who have strong convictions, even if they are not the same as mine. We have brains to think for ourselves, to find what is right for ourselves. People with different beliefs don't bother me. Hypocrites don't bother me because I'm sure I have been one. Peoples beliefs evolve over their lifespans.
Yes, spiritual beliefs are personal. Yet, when you say "However you find your way to God, or not, is up to each person" - that needs to be expanded upon. I am assuming we both agree that Jesus Christ is God the Son, the Incarnate God, sharing all the same attributes as God the Father. Therefore the authority of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are equal and unquestionable.
Jesus tells us, "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me" (John 14:6).
In this Scripture verse, He is telling us that there is only one way to God - through Jesus Christ. This means that anyone wanting to spend eternity in the presence of God - MUST do it through having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ - the only Way.
This is also illustrated in the true story found in Luke 16:19-31 - where, at that time, all Old Testament saints, i.e., believers, are still residing in Hades/Paradise (the Bosom of Abraham). When Jesus is crucified, He goes into Hades/Paradise and leads those Old Testament saints from Hades/Paradise into heaven (Ephesians 4:8). Paradise is now Heaven/Paradise; the old Hades version has been permanently closed.
However, the Hades/Torment we find in Luke 16:19-31 is still open and doing a booming business. It is still the temporary residence of all who have died while still denying Jesus Christ. After the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), all those non-believers will all go to their eternal abode, forever void of the presence of God, which can only be called hell.
Then, you write:
Although I don't agree with what Bill says, I have learned some things from him.
Thank you, my Friend, I appreciate your honesty - and your compliment.
And:
Who am I to say he is wrong? He is right, for him. If he feels I am wrong, too bad, doesn't affect me. I have been told this before, it says something in the bible like "Yea, though you think you are right, you are wrong." Don't care. How do I know all this? God/my mind told me, same as God told Bill he is right.
First, I am not sure where to find the Scripture verse you mention. Do you have thoughts on where to find it?
Could you be thinking of these Scripture verses?
Romans 3:10, "As it is written: 'There is none righteous, no, not one;'"
Romans 3:23, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God;"
If so, we must complete the latter one, Romans 3:23:
Romans 3:24-26, "being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
Yes, every person born into this mortal world has an innate sin nature inherited from the fall of Adam into disobedience. None of us can be righteous in and of ourselves. But, God, in His love, grace, and mercy - has provided a path to eternal life. That path is Jesus Christ and the very moment we receive Him as Lord and Savior - we become children of God (John 1:12), we are indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13) until the day of our redemption from this mortal world (Ephesians 4:30) by death or by the rapture.
My Friend, you write, "Who am I to say he is wrong? He is right, for him."
Personally, I am not concerned about Bill Gray being right. I am concerned about God's Word being right. Just as in a court of law, it does not matter what the attorney says - the only thing that matters is what is written in the books of law. In the same way, it does not matter what Bill Gray says, it only matters what is written in the Bible, God's Written Word.
And, in the Bible, we are told:
1 John 5:11-13, "And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. (12) He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. (13) These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life."
It could not be written more clearly than that. If you have a personal relationship with the Son of God - you HAVE eternal life. If you do not have a personal relationship with the Son of God - you DO NOT HAVE eternal life.
Having eternal life means spending eternity, never ending, in the presence of God, which is heaven.
Not having eternal life means spending eternity, never ending, out of the presence of God, which is hell.
Your comment about politics I will skip. I will just leave it that I am politically a Conservative.
Finally, you write:
Ignore the views you don't agree with, stop taking it personally. Be the better person, meaning don't resort to name calling. That doesn't solve anything. Unless you are stealing, killing, or molesting little kids - live and let live. Be nice. Take care of the earth.
I will add a triple AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! to that! There is never a reason to resort of name calling, nasty comments, or outright derogatory comments.
My Friend, I agree with you. When we can have discussions which are civil, even if we disagree, we can all learn from the discussions. But, when posts sink to the level of personal defamation and name calling - absolutely nothing is accomplished, nothing is learned.
I join you in sincerely asking ALL of our Forum Friends to give serious thought to what you have posted - and, when posting, not just blurt out their first impulse.
Words have consequences. Words, like a bullet fired from a gun - cannot be taken back once they are spoken or posted on a forum. Think, consider your words, then respond. If we all will do this - we can have the absolute best Forum to be found anywhere.
Let me close by sharing this confession. Many times I have been angered by what someone has written. Many times I have wanted to respond in anger - just put it all out there. Many times I have impulsively written an angry response.
But, praise God, because I have the Great Convicter, the Holy Spirit, living within me - and because I do pray as I am writing (not always, but most of the time) - by the time I have vented my feelings through writing that response, I can delete it and not post what I have written in anger. That works for me.
I am sure that, whether you have the Holy Spirit living within or not, that process can still work for you. Even if you are not convicted by the Holy Spirit, you do have a sense of civil common decency living within (Romans 2:14-15) - which will tell you that an angry, nasty response will accomplish nothing other than a momentary sense of revenge.
My Forum Friend, thank you for raising this issue for our consideration. I pray that our other Forum Friends will heed your inspired words.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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