CAN YOU EXPLAIN to another believer, or to a non-believer, what is
meant by the statement,
"God is both Transcendent and
Immanent?" No? Why not?
"Bill, will you get off your theological soapbox! All I want
to know is that I am a Christian and that I am saved. Why
should I go into all that theological mumbo-jumbo?"
Glad you asked. Jesus Christ left us a firm instruction,
i.e.,
command -
"Go, Make disciples, Baptize them, TEACH them. . .
Be My witnesses in all the world" (Matthew 28:19-20,
Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15). In other words, go into all the world, do
battle for our Christian faith, rescue the lost.
Now, imagine you are in the military and your Drill Instructor is
teaching you how to keep your weapon in good working order, how to
disassemble and reassemble it, how to keep it clean and working
properly - and then how to fire it. Would you tell your Drill
Instructor,
"I don't need to know all that mumbo-jumbo. Just
let me start firing my weapon!" Duh! How long do you
think you would last in an environment of hostile attacks?
The same is true of our Witnessing Weapon, the Gospel, the Word of
God. How effective can you be as His witness if you do not
bother to learn the Bible and how to share it?
And, that brings me to the reason I am once again sharing the blog
I wrote in May 2014, that God is both Transcendent and Immanent.
What does it mean that God is Transcendent? That means that God
exists outside our universe and that is why He could create our
universe. If He were part of our universe, how could He have
created it? That would mean that He created Himself. No, the
truth is that
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the
earth" (Genesis 1:1) - because He is preexistent,
i.e.,
He had no beginning, nor will He ever cease to exist. At some point in
eternity God decided to create us and our universe, for His glory.
And, we all must be eternally grateful that God is Immanent. For
that means that He is present, intimate, and actively involved in
even the smallest details of our lives, He knows our needs, our
desires, and He has a plan for each one of us. Jesus Christ teaches us:
"Are not two sparrows sold
for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart
from your Father's will. But the very hairs of your head are
all numbered. Do
not fear therefore; you are of more value than many
sparrows." (Matthew 10:29-31).
Yes, God
knows and cares for us, even down to the individual hairs on our
heads - or, in some cases, the hairs which used to be on your
head. That is the Immanence of God.
This is the depth of
Biblical knowledge we, as mature Christian believers, should be
able to share with all who ask. That is the reason I am
revisiting this blog.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
GOD IS BOTH
TRANSCENDENT AND IMMANENT, 15 May 2014 - Bill Gray
In a May 2014
TimesDaily Religion Forum discussion titled
"I have
Questions For Bill - #2 The Question" - a Forum Friend
who posts using the blind pseudonym "CrustyMac" tells me he is a believer, but does not trust the Bible,
nor most Christians, and has not been in a church service for
so long that he would be looking for the ticket window - has
posed questions to me.
However, because his comments and questions tend to ramble, I
will attempt to collect and divide his thoughts into coherent
groups so that I might answer him more fully. For clarity,
this response to his comments/questions is the first of a
three part response which I will space out over a short period
of time.
First, CrustyMac offers,
"I've been ready to
ask my second question of Bill in his attempt to 'tutor'
me for quite a while now. Bill finally, after much dancing
around the issue, confirmed that he believes that
Jesus and God continues to work here on earth and in
heaven. For some reason he equates 'working' with the passive states of omnipresence, omnipotence, and
omniscience. But, whatever."
To get started,
let me ask: "
What makes you think that God's
attributes of omnipresence, omnipotence, and omniscience
are passive?"
Personally I see
God very active in all His creation. There is nothing
"passive"
about our God, nor any of His attributes. God is always
all
powerful (omnipotent),
all knowing
(omniscient),
all places present (omnipresent) -
and YOU should be very happy that, in His grace,
He is also always merciful.
"Mercy is God not punishing us as our
sins deserve. And grace is God blessing
us despite the fact that we do not deserve it. Mercy is
deliverance from judgment. Grace is extending kindness
to the unworthy." http://www.gotquestions.org/mercy-grace.html
Two other attributes of God which tie into this
discussion are
transcendence and
immanence.
Everyone who is a Christian has to acknowledge that God is
both
"transcendent" and
"immanent."
Transcendence means that God exists outside our universe.
That is obvious since He created the heavens and the earth,
i.e., our universe. He could not have created our universe -
unless He were outside our universe.
Yet, God is very close, very involved in the lives of all His
creation.
That is His immanence. God is Immanent,
intricately involved in even the smallest aspects, the tiniest
details, of His creation.
Scripture tells us:
Matthew 10:29-31 (nkjv), "Are
not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of
them falls to the ground apart from your Father's will.
But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Do
not fear therefore; you are of more value than many
sparrows."
God knows the very hairs on your head - or,
for some, the very hairs that used to be on your head. God
knows all your major joys and happiness, all your sorrows and
hurts. He is there to lift you up - especially when you seem
to have fallen.
There is a saying:
"If God brings you to it, He Will bring
you through it." No, that is not a Bible verse,
but there are many examples of that philosophy found
throughout the Bible. God brought Israel into slavery in
Egypt for 400 years because of their disobedience; yet, He
brought them out of Egypt and made them an even greater
nation.
Virtually every Christian believer, and definitely me, can
tell of times when everything seemed so hopeless. Yet, when
we went to God in prayer, He brought us through it. I have
shared personal prayer experiences with you before on the
forum: spiritual needs, physical and health needs, financial
needs,
etc. - when God allowed me to come to the edge of the
abyss; then He lifted me over it. That is an example of God's
immanence, nearness to each of us, personal involvement in our
smallest and in our largest moments of life.
Question: "What does it mean
that God is transcendent?"
http://www.gotquestions.org/God-transcendent.html
Answer: To transcend means “to
exist above and independent from; to rise above, surpass,
succeed.” By this definition, God is the only truly
transcendent Being. The “LORD God Almighty” (in
Hebrew, El Shaddai) created all things on the earth, beneath
the earth, and in the heavens above.
Yet He exists above and (is)
independent from them. All things are upheld by His mighty
power (Hebrews 1:3), yet He is upheld by Himself alone. The
whole universe exists in Him and for Him that He may receive
glory, honor, and praise.
A transcendent God must turn His face away (from sin), for
He is forced by His very righteousness and holiness to keep
Himself separate from anything or anyone sinful, impure,
unclean, or less than perfect. However, besides being
transcendent (outside), God also possesses immanence
(nearness), and it is in His immanence that God chooses to
draw near to His creation.
This, too, is a paradox. “‘Am I only a God
nearby,’ declares the LORD, ‘and not a God far
away? Can anyone hide in secret places so that I cannot
see him?’ declares the LORD. ‘Do I not fill heaven and
earth?’ declares the LORD" (Jeremiah 23:23-24).
God’s transcendent nature strives to keep Him distant and
remote from His creation both in space and time.
Yet on the other hand, His immanent nature works to draw Him
near to His creation and to sustain the universe. God’s
love for His creation is so great that we see His immanence
overshadowing His transcendence. This becomes clear in His
incarnate Son, Jesus Christ, as He breaks through the
barrier of sin and separation to draw all mankind back into
a close, personal relationship (with God).
We see God not only choosing to draw
near to His creation, but to personally come into the hearts
and minds of His people through the indwelling power of His
Holy Spirit. This is the miracle of God’s transcendence
(and immanence).
Then, my Friend CrustyMac continues,
"Here is what Bill has
confirmed that he believes. This is what we have
so far: Bill believes (1) Once saved, always saved."
Yes, we find that proven in Ephesians 1:13 where the believer
is indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit at the moment of
believing - and, in Ephesians 4:30, we are told that the
indwelling and sealing of the Holy Spirit remains intact until
the day of our redemption,
i.e., until the day we die in this mortal
body, or the day we are Raptured from this mortal body.
And, we see
"eternal security" verified in many
Scripture verses (too many to list here), such as,
"He who
believes HAS (not may have or could have - but HAS)
eternal life" (John 6:47). We see in John
10:28-29 that NO ONE (absolutely no one, which includes the
believer himself/herself) can snatch the believer out of God's
hands. That, my Friend, is most certainly
"eternal
security" or, as we often define it:
"once saved,
always saved."
He continues,
"Bill believes (2)
The Bible is to be taken literally - except for obvious
uses of metaphors, simile, and symbolism."
Yes, that is true. Like all good narrative writing, the Bible
is to be read literally. However, since God is the best of
all writers - He has made good use of the different figures
of speech at times, for often a figure of speech is the best
way to get a point, or message, across to the reader. That is
why Jesus Christ often taught in parables.
God allowed the inspired writers, writing in their own
personal and cultural styles, to use metaphors and similes,
they used analogies, and they used symbolism. The Bible
contains books of law, poetry, history, and prophecy.
However, the main body of the Bible is narrative, intended to
be read literally.
A good rule of thumb when studying the Bible: first read the
passage literally with the assumption that the writer, under
the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, has written it in clear,
literal narrative form. If it fits, that is the meaning.
But, if the writer tells us,
"Jesus is the door of the
sheep fold" or "Jesus is a rock" - we know those are
similes, for Jesus Christ is neither a door nor a rock.
On the other hand, when we read in John 6:47,
"Truly,
truly, I say to you, he who believes has
eternal life" - we know that is to be read literally.
And, the vast majority of the Bible narrative is to read
literally. Knowing the difference is just a matter of common
sense.
God created languages so that we, His creation, will be able
to communicate with Him - and with one another. Would such a
God who created us and gave us the ability to communicate
through language - then turn around and create His Written
Word, His Bible, His full revelation to mankind for salvation
and to guide our daily Christian lives - in secret coded
messages and symbolism that we cannot understand? Would God
give us a Users' Manual that required a highly educated priest
or scholar to interpret? That would defeat the purpose of His
Written Word.
Question: Why have some liberal theologians come to view the Bible as a
"spiritualized" rather than a
"literal" style
of writing?
Answer: Because that gives them more leeway to interpret
the Bible to say what they want it to say - rather than what
God has inspired it to say. In other words, a
"spiritualized"
reading of the Bible more readily facilitates the use of
eisegesis, reading INTO Scripture. With a
"spiritualized"
reading of Scripture they can read INTO the Bible the theology
they want - rather than reading God's intended
message FROM Scripture.
Doing that, they can more easily accommodate erroneous
teachings such the Gap Theory,
i.e., an
"old earth"
creation in billions of years instead of the
"young earth"
thousands of years. They can more easily accommodate society's
norm such as Same-Sex Marriage, abortions, and women pastors. They can
more easily insert extraBiblical teachings and traditions, such as those found only in the
Apocryphal books, to support their desired theology. Using a
"spiritualized" reading of Scripture easily
allows one to insert whatever he, or his church, wants INTO
Scripture.
Imagine that you purchased a new Mercedes - and the Users'
Manual was written in German. Would Mercedes manufacture a
car to be sold in America - and only supply a Users' Manual
written in German which most Americans cannot read? True,
that would be dumb. And, our God is definitely not dumb.
So, when He gave us our Users' Manual, the Bible, He made sure
it was written in language, and in a manner, which we can read
and more easily understand - literally. Then, He goes even
further, giving each believer a personal guide to help us
understand His Users' Manual, the Holy Spirit who indwells
each believer - teaching us, guiding us, convicting us (John
14:26
He teaches us, John 16:13
He guides us,
John 16:8
He convicts us).
But, we are told that the Holy Spirit is not guiding and
teaching the non-believer: John 14:17,
"That is the Spirit
of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does
not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He
abides with you and will be in you."
So, yes, my Friend, God's Written Word, the Bible is intended
to be read literally. Maybe the reason you have a hard time
doing that, or understanding what you are reading - is that
you have not yet become a believer and do not have the
indwelling teaching and guidance of the Holy Spirit. You
might want to give that some thought.
My Friend's next point,
"Bill believes (3)
Everything in the New Testament, including all of Paul's
writing, is God's word to us, straight from God, and God
doesn't change his mind."
That is 100% true! You could not have made a more
accurate statement, nor attributed a more accurate statement
to me. Yes, that is exactly what I KNOW to be true of the
Bible.
Do you have any reason to believe that God would have allowed
the apostle Paul to write half the books of the New Testament
(13 for sure, and 14 if we agree, as do many scholars, that
Paul also wrote the book of Hebrews) - and, then allow those
books to not be accurate, inspired Scripture? Of the 27 books
of the New Testament, Paul wrote either 13 or 14. Would that
not be foolish of God to allow a person who is not inspired by
the Holy Spirit - to write over 50% of His inspired text?
Do YOU think that God is foolish? I most certainly do not!
And, yes, everything written in the New Testament and the Old
Testament, was inspired by God.
2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All
Scripture is inspired by God and profitable
for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in
righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate,
equipped for every good work."
Does God change His mind? NO!
Malachi 3:6, "For I, the LORD,
do not change; . . ."
James 1:17, "Every good gift and every perfect gift is
from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with
whom there is no variation or shadow of turning."
Next, my Friend attributes to me these words of
wisdom,
"Bill believes (4)
If someone willfully disobeys the Bible, then they were
never Christians, and still aren't."
Yes and no. Yes, if a person tells us that he/she is a
Christian believer - but, then purposely chooses to live an
active lifestyle which is against Biblical teaching - then I would
say that this person was never a believer.
A good example is the person who claims to be Christian, yet
is actively living the homosexual lifestyle, maybe even
participating in a same-sex marriage. God says one thing.
This person is living totally opposite to what God has
declared to be right.
How can that person be a Christ
Follower when he/she is walking in the opposite
direction from Christ?
On the other hand, a person who is a believer - will still always
have the inherited Adamic Sin Nature as long as we are in this
mortal body. What does this mean? It means that we will and
do sin (Romans 3:23). It means that we are only
"forgiven
sinners."
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that
we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth
is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful
and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us
from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have
not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us."
So, what is the difference between the person
who purposely chooses to live an active sin lifestyle and
lives in sin - and the person who purposely chooses to live a
Christian lifestyle and sins? Good question. Glad you asked!
The person who is purposely living an active sin lifestyle has
turned his/her back upon God. God says walk this way - and
that person chooses to purposely walk in the opposite
spiritual direction.
Whereas, the person who has chosen the Christian lifestyle has
committed himself/herself to walking with God, in His
direction. And, even though we will stumble and fall, even
though we may step in sin mud holes at times, even though we at times may reach
for forbidden fruit - we still are moving in the right
spiritual direction - toward and with God.
This Scripture passage tells us, "
If we confess our sins,
He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to
cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Do we need to
confess our sins? Yes.
Why? Another good question. Since we know that God is
omniscient - He already knows what we did wrong, and why.
So, what do we accomplish by confessing? First, we are doing
as He told us (1 John 1:8-10) when we confess.
Second, confessing our sin is not so that God will know. He
already knows. Confessing our sin is for the purpose of us
recognizing our sin, acknowledging our sin, and owning our
sin. How can God forgive us if we will not admit and
acknowledge our sin? But, the moment we do confess that sin -
"He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our
sins and to cleanse us." That is why we confess our
sin.
Here are two good articles on sin and overcoming sin:
Question: "Do we sin daily?
Is it possible to go an entire day without sinning?"
http://www.gotquestions.org/sin-daily.html
And,
Question: "How can I
overcome sin in my Christian life?"
http://www.gotquestions.org/victory-over-sin.html
Finally, my Friend accuses me,
"Bill believes (5)
God and Jesus are omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and
continue to work here on earth and in heaven."
We have already covered this point in the beginning of our
discussion. However, let me once more affirm that,
YES, I know
that God is Omniscient (all knowing), Omnipresent (all places
present), Omnipotent (all powerful) - and praise God,
YES, He
most definitely does continue to work here on earth (immanent)
and in heaven (transcendent). If He did not do both - we and all His
creation would be in really big trouble.
CrustyMac, my Friend, I thank you for your questions and comments. In
responding to them, I have learned and grown in my knowledge of
God's Word. And, I pray that you and all who read our
discussion will also learn and grow in that knowledge.
The rest of your comments/questions I will respond to in
subsequent dialogues.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill